New member

[gmascelli]

Hi,

I'm new to the group, wanting to find out more info about the aircraft. I've owned a 80 Beech Sundowner for many years and recently sold that to purchase a 63 Debonair. Both beautiful planes that fit our mission at the time.

Back in June I had our first real trip scheduled in the new to us Deb and immediately following take off and retracting the gear the IO470 ate an exhaust valve taking out the number three cylinder. I managed to go to my option B and belly in on a local golf course. The bride had back fractures that required surgery and I was a mess. Back, ribs, sternum, tib/fib break, and planted my face in the panel.

Anyway....we are both still alive and enjoying everyday. The itch to fly is starting and the bride said IF she flys again she wants those two doors back. That rules out the Bo and Deb, but left the door open for the Sierra. We want more speed for our travels in retirement and comfort.

So that's why I'm here.....comfort, two doors, speed and lycoming power.

 

[Thor7000]

Re: New member

welcome.......curious why you went belly in?? why not drop the gear??

 

[gmascelli]

Re: New member

welcome.......curious why you went belly in?? why not drop the gear??

We had a lot of rain and it was a par three course (pitch and putt) not a lot of fairway. With full fuel (80 gallons) I didn't want to stick the gear and possibly flip or cartwheel. The FAA guy said the GPS antenna and the step left the only indication where I touched down.

 

[gmores]

Re: New member

So that's why I'm here.....comfort, two doors, speed and lycoming power.

Welcome Gary - you came to the right place!

 

[gmascelli]

Re: New member

Thanks, Glenn

I’m interested in the 114A or B. I’m going to search for the numbers to see how it will fit our mission. I’m looking for good useful load, P&I good shape with low time SMOH, or a run out so I can start fresh. It seems everything I’ve looked at has updated avionics, that’s always a plus.

I do miss my 530W/430W with the 345 transponder and 8000BT audio and Stec 50 AP in the Deb. Life moves on and it’s time to get back in the game.

 

[gmores]

Re: New member

Make sure you check out our FAQ linked from our home page. It has good comparative numbers and specs for all the models.

 

[Jamesdub]

Re: New member

Welcome Gary!!

What an ordeal you guys went through, God Bless - you and the wife are okay.

I've owned a 1978 114 for 8 years now. She's my first and as you can relate, holds a special place in my aviation heart. Though I'm 100% satisfied with her I still long for the upgrades associated with the 114 B or even TC models. And as noted many times in other threads I like to take any opportunity to upgrade to the newer model amenities.

Being one of the larger members I find the AC11 VERY comfortable and she's met all my loading requirement to date. I routinely fly with big guys up front and we never experience the 'shoulder rub' and you already know the benefits to the two doors.

In my observation:
* the 112's are excellent for a couple and the reduced operating cost is a plus.
* the 112 TC's HotShots are great high altitude performers for the higher terrain areas.
* the 114 / A's are solid performers but are getting up in the years. They have a quirky w/bal charting compared to the 114 B / TC's.
* the 114B's are my personal preferred platform. Many, many refinements and are simply newer.
* the 114 TC's appear to be the cream of the crop, but personally I'm not 100% sold on them after watching a handful exchange hands in the last couple of years. I had the opportunity to fly wing off of one for Many flights and long X Countries and the owner was constantly trying to find ways to keep it cool and each re-start was always a mystery. But when he'd pull up next to me with his A/c on then push that extra 15+ knots on me I may have had a different notion . . .

I'm running a T4B5 (B eng) wth a 3 bladed Scimitar @ around an avg 3,000 g/w takeoff.
My sweet spot is 6K - 8K running 2350 RPM WOT netting 142 TAS at LOP 11.8 Gal's per hr. (I flt plan for 141TAS and 12.5 per hr)
VERY stable IFR platform.

Please ask 'ANY' questions that come to mind.
And welcome again,
John

 

[N4843W]

Re: New member

John, that was a great quick summary of the fleet. Only question, why do you consider the straight 114 W&B quirky and how is it different compared to the B model?

Welcome Gary!!

What an ordeal you guys went through, God Bless - you and the wife are okay.

I've owned a 1978 114 for 8 years now. She's my first and as you can relate, holds a special place in my aviation heart. Though I'm 100% satisfied with her I still long for the upgrades associated with the 114 B or even TC models. And as noted many times in other threads I like to take any opportunity to upgrade to the newer model amenities.

Being one of the larger members I find the AC11 VERY comfortable and she's met all my loading requirement to date. I routinely fly with big guys up front and we never experience the 'shoulder rub' and you already know the benefits to the two doors.

In my observation:
* the 112's are excellent for a couple and the reduced operating cost is a plus.
* the 112 TC's HotShots are great high altitude performers for the higher terrain areas.
* the 114 / A's are solid performers but are getting up in the years. They have a quirky w/bal charting compared to the 114 B / TC's.
* the 114B's are my personal preferred platform. Many, many refinements and are simply newer.
* the 114 TC's appear to be the cream of the crop, but personally I'm not 100% sold on them after watching a handful exchange hands in the last couple of years. I had the opportunity to fly wing off of one for Many flights and long X Countries and the owner was constantly trying to find ways to keep it cool and each re-start was always a mystery. But when he'd pull up next to me with his A/c on then push that extra 15+ knots on me I may have had a different notion . . .

I'm running a T4B5 (B eng) wth a 3 bladed Scimitar @ around an avg 3,000 g/w takeoff.
My sweet spot is 6K - 8K running 2350 RPM WOT netting 142 TAS at LOP 11.8 Gal's per hr. (I flt plan for 141TAS and 12.5 per hr)
VERY stable IFR platform.

Please ask 'ANY' questions that come to mind.
And welcome again,
John

 

[davloose]

Re: New member

Hey, Gary! Glad to see you here! You’ll find lots of good info here.

I’ve followed your situation first hand on Facebook, thrilled that you and the wife are looking to get back in the saddle. The Commander is a very solid platform and you’ll enjoy the space and payload along with good performance!

If I can help, let me know!

 

[gmascelli]

Re: New member

Glenn,
Thanks. I checked out the FAQ link and have been snooping around learning my way. Great info!

John,
Thanks for the breakdown, plenty of good info to digest. I think I'm looking for the 114A model, but it's just a starting place.

My Sundowner was my first and it broke my heart to watch her fly off, without me. We continue to move forward, and despite the setback, we hope to be traveling again on our own magic carpet.

Dave,
We have tried to keep friends and family updated on the recovery process and FB makes that a bit easier. I also update my Flight Journal (blog) and I am looking forward to more travel stories.

After just turning 61 with a beat up body my number one goal is comfort. Catching for ten plus years didn't help my knees nor did hockey. Sports injuries and two accidents, one plane and one truck, has taken a toll. However, life goes on and I'm not one to ever quit so we start the search for another plane. Too many years of fun still out there.

 

[plight]

Re: New member

Gary,

Glad to hear that you and your wife are able to continue to follow your passion and dreams. As you have heard, the Commanders are exceptionally comfortable aircraft. The creature comforts that air conditioning adds to the 114B models is awesome, but the system is bit finicky from a maintenance perspective. However, the B models have a few speed mods on them that make them go a bit faster (NACA air vent, cowl inlets, etc).

I would suggest that you talk to Judi, our resident Commander Queen Bee. She can help you find that right bird that meets your needs and budget.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Jamesdub]

Re: New member

John, that was a great quick summary of the fleet. Only question, why do you consider the straight 114 W&B quirky and how is it different compared to the B model?

Morning Scott,

One of my LONG pet-peeves is the forward CG charting for our S/n's as compared to the 'B's.

Note there is a increase in the B's total g/w (3250 vice ours at 3140) but it's the fwd CG chart that gets your attention.

We do net almost 500 more hours on our wing life though (19,284 - 14,812) though I'd give that up in a second for the extra G/w and CG amendment . . ha ha

 

[wiguy]

Re: New member

Welcome Gary, sorry about your unfortunate accident. I’m programmed to strongly lean for gear up with an actual engine out, unless I have reason to believe the spot is rather firm. Anyhoo, conditions always vary, no need for absolutes.

I have a 112 with a fairly new IO-390 in installed. Not the cheapest way to go, could use some panel work too. I just got back from a trip to the Charlotte area, then down to Vero Beach, FL, and back. I was able to snag a pretty good tailwind towards Statesville, NC with the upper 180’s(kts) for a groundspeed.

My current useful load is 890, without my backseats I gain another 40. Not a reason to buy a plane, but the Commander usually garners a little more ramp appeal more common types.

 

[Thor7000]

Re: New member

Do all 114B's have air conditioning?? Living in Florida, A/C seems like a logical comfort....unfortunately not many for sale

 

[janderson]

Re: New member

air was an "option", so NO, Oliver. of all the 114Bs (100-120) total that can accommodate the a/c sys., I guesstimate only about 30-40 max. w/air.
a lot of "new" buyers for one didn't all live in CA, TX or FL.

Judi

 

[Thor7000]

Re: New member

air was an "option", so NO, Oliver. of all the 114Bs (100-120) total that can accommodate the a/c sys., I guesstimate only about 30-40 max. w/air.
a lot of "new" buyers for one didn't all live in CA, TX or FL.

Judi

Thanks Judi for the reply. Do you come across 114B's or are they pretty rare?? Only one's I've seen listed are overseas

 

[janderson]

Re: New member

They come up now and then. Hv (2) early B"s soon, neither with air. also have (2) 115TCs both 'with' air. Since they're 2000 and newer price point is more.

Judi

 

[gmascelli]

Re: New member

Judi,

You can add me to that list, if you please. As others have mentioned and Stephen Shore pointed out to me, you’re the go to for Commanders.

 

[Surfrat]

Re: New member

Welcome Aboard Gary - Great to have you and you'll find the COG to be incredibly knowledgable and helpful !!!

 

[gmascelli]

Re: New member

Welcome Aboard Gary - Great to have you and you'll find the COG to be incredibly knowledgable and helpful !!!

Thanks, Rik!

I am enjoying reading through the site and learning as I go. Following the AC topic, that sure would be nice here at the beach during the summer. Not a deal breaker at all, but a nice to have option.