Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

[Pilotmike]

Big winds last week in Central Fl, so rather than do a long day with my CFI I elected to stay in the pattern and be introduced to crosswind technique in the 112TC. Perfect day for it..nice 12 knot steady xwind with some gusts every so often.

I admit I was nervous...I've flown it enough to sense the Commander has the least rudder response of any plane I've flown....that and I was a little unsure about go-around technique because of the finesse required for throttle work....no more slamming it forward like in a 172.

Sooo I had a good long talk with Scott before we went aloft. My first attempt was.........a go around, which turned out to be not such a big deal. Landings 2 and 3 felt odd, as I found myself running out of rudder WAY earlier than I was used to. By 4 & 5 I was feeling a little more like a human being again. On #6 I made Scott promise to pretend he wasn't in the right seat. He agreed to only speak up if I scared him. This was our last one of the day, as winds were steadily picking up as the morning progressed closer to noon. I have to say...I made that last one downright pretty.

Heavens this is such a wonderful aircraft!

 

[gmores]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Any excuse to get a little time in is great. With the time change I can now get night current pretty easily

 

[wab003]

Any excuse to get a little time in is great. With the time change I can now get night current pretty easily

My plan for this very evening. Nice to do @ 6p instead of 10p.

 

[wab003]

Now, if we can just get POTUS to stay out of SW Ohio for more than a few hours in the very early morning, we'll actually get the use of our airports again. The constant TFR's have been insane.

 

[ksandrew]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

I got a great nights sleep last night, worked until after midnight and then to the motel for that extra hour of sleep.

I have heard that President Obama has promised to turn the clocks back every Saturday so we can all get that extra hours sleep that we deserve and is our right.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken Andrew

 

[mariobie]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Don't need Obama to do that. I am fully capable and willing to turn back the clock all by myself...whenever I feel like it

 

[Sherman]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Well All; today was suppose to be the best weather in Virginia since before winter. Was forecast to be 62 sunny deg in Richmond; high 50's in Goldvein/SW of DC metro. So much for forecasts. Yesterday it did make it to 55 but it was quite breezy; 12 gusting to 24 of course a direct crosswind; so I waited to today for the Richmond lunch flight. Gassed up the plane to 48 gal in just a flanel shirt- Early spring I thought.

Get up this morning and its a total overcast. Ok was 6500-7500 so not an issue. Wasn't crossing any mountains. Get to the airport @10 and its again a xwind with some gusts; nothing I haven't dealt with fr 30 years; but ts 42 deg; wind chill in the 30's.

Take off was tricky and got a swift sideways wack at about 150 ft agl; but all of a sudden I'm seeing 1400' on the vSi. A bit scary in a non Super duper Commander.

And of course, no response at all from Potomac Tracon. Oh ----; not a radio failure. So I level at 3'000 and its umpy- like a jolt or 'longitudinal dance wiggle' every minute. And of course I am still climbing despite the previous 5 minutes of perfect 'level at'.

So flying across rural central va. Next waypoint (18 mins) Lake Anna 7W4 and still no radio response from potoac.

 

[Sherman]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Finally after changing to the Richmond Potomac freq; I get a clear and responsive controller. Got a little smoother toward Richmond but ceiking now down to 4500 and I see varga to the west east of the shenandoahs.

The landing at Chesterfield was like the Warrenton takeoff: direct crosswind at 15 gusts to 24. Had to crab back to the centerline and keep up the speed - always make full flaps landings but had to back off 1 deg flaps to lessen the roller coaster over the runway. Think I'm loosing the wifi.

 

[Sherman]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Ok got it planted good and straight and up tbe flaps; off the electric pump let it roll and exit right in front of the terminal like I know what I'm doing. lineman directs me; wow a real airport.
David waiting at the fence. He came in his '86 XJS 3.6. I-6 5 spd cabriolet --maybe one of 7 of the 24 xj57's- never sold to the public. EPA testing; marketing; Jaguar decided that it they brought the 5 spd no one would buy the V12 XJS.

Anyway 42 deg windsock straight out and gusting but at 310 to 350; Runway 33. Flight back Tracon very busy talking to commercials; so just winged it.

Bottom line once again crosswind proficient but felt it in my knees.
Winds at Warrenton had subsided some. Landing at 80 touch down felt 'slow'.
All well in Commander land.
Can't wait for real Spring!!!!!!

 

[N4843W]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Sherman, I use full flap below 15 knots Xwind, but half the flaps over 15 knot Xwind component and add 5 knots airspeed ... and use only about 10 degrees over 20 knots and add 10 knots airspeed . Keeps the rudder authority in there for the long crab. I have gotten so perverted that I now look forward to these as fun.

But as we know, this birds can be rigged differently and flown differently.

 

[ksandrew]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Scott,

your figures are amazing, I have always done it by feel.

I don't really know what I do. It is like adding salt to french fries, my body and mind knows what I need.

I did a departure from MEI many years ago, just ahead of hurricane Andrew, Way above what I should have done.
Ended up doing what I call a "bunny hop" on departure.

The tower commented that it was one of the most interesting departures that they had ever seen. Hey, I got to safer territory.

You may be right.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken

 

[Sherman]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Scott you pretty much nailed the settings as Ken said. I pretty much start with 40^ flaps and see -as Ken says- what IT feel I need.Think you figured I meant cut the flaps back 10^ not 1^… . I've neved been able to depend on AWOS reports because every airport the winds/gusts are different at both ends and middle of the runway - as most are tree lined. Different at a big airport like you home base lots of wide open spaces

Pic taken by friend as I left Chesterfield VA. Thought I was back in Upstate NY in March. Ironic he caught the windsock.

 

[N4843W]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Ken, I know those figures from teaching my son Conor and a few other guys who asked for help over the years. For the first few years, like everyone, I felt my way through them. Now with almost 12 years and 2200 hours, I pretty much know what works best ... in my bird. (Your results will vary.) I do recall vividly feeling the first solid year that this bird just does not like Xwind over 10-12 knots ... seemed to run out of rudder ... and if you get too slow with too big a component, it certainly does. That was frustrating at first, for sure. Breaking the "approach in a slip" habit as flown by most all Cessna drivers and taught by most all CFI's was the first challenge.

 

[nruzic]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Guys I agree with Shearman & Scott I use teh crab approach rather than the slip although if pilots are more slip comfy by all means do so I've used it in the Commander & it works fine.

My only difference is I use fuill flaps almost always just so I have the minimum ground contact speed. I think the Commander does OK on controls full flaps just not as firm as with less flaps. Yes add speed for the gusts and some patience - as Sgherman did - just ride the gust waves don't force it down and often a lull alows it to settle nicely.

Shearman very nice description.

 

[Planecents]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

No wind here in Kansas (right Toto?). I kinda like the side window view. The added benefit is to open the window and you have excellent air conditioning!

P.S. My wingman got his airplane yet?

 

[mariobie]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Interesting subject. Did anyone came into conclusion that 114 will run of of the rudder during take off way sooner than during landing? Not too long ago I did some pattern work with direct cross wind of 25 kts gusting 32 kts if I can remember correctly. Approaches were bumpy but I was able to keep it straight with rudders. However, on take-offs I run of of rudder authority way before mid-field. I have ruled out sudden gust due to the fact that I had full rudder throughout roll-out. Just curious if anyone experienced similar " phenomena " ?

 

[kgrant]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

That's been tough for me too. I've had closer calls with Directional control on cross-wind takeoffs than landing. When I hold it on the ground, the nosewheel steering gets very touchy. Not pretty.
k

 

[N4843W]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

I have not experienced that ... interesting. First, having full fuel will help. Second, crank in some extra downward trim and hold it tight to the runway until you reach lift0ff + gust factor. Third, are you cranking it the aileron hard?

 

[kgrant]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

I have not experienced that ... interesting. First, having full fuel will help. Second, crank in some extra downward trim and hold it tight to the runway until you reach lift0ff + gust factor. Third, are you cranking it the aileron hard?

Maybe not hard enough. I get a diving oscillation just before Vr when the wings are alive but still steering with nosewheel. Had to fly it off and hold it in ground effect to save it.

I'll try down trim. Aileron-rudder interconnect is getting the best of me.
k

 

[Planecents]

Re: Whoo Hooo: Crosswinds!

Maybe not hard enough. I get a diving oscillation just before Vr when the wings are alive but still steering with nosewheel. Had to fly it off and hold it in ground effect to save it.

I'll try down trim. Aileron-rudder interconnect is getting the best of me.
k

Diving oscillation, maybe to much forward pressure on elevators. I agree with Scott. Pretty stable with full load, 26 knots + gusts. Keep it planted till + gust factor speed and snap her off.