The "8 Knot Mod"

[nruzic]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Knots to you who'er interested.

Kudos to Jim for organizing such an informative potential Commander data quest for standardization. These will be very interesting data and as an aero engineer I am intrigued to see how much elv nose down variations and trim setting variations occur.

I created a trim data collection Excel form (.xls not the new 2007 Excel) for your convenience, see attached. It prints out as a landscape 8.5 x 11 with lots of margin room so no one will be write squeezed.

I assumed you're going somewhere so made it a 2 data set form, 1 for the outbound flight & 1 for the inbound.

Pease take a look, the email address (Jim & I for analyses) to send it in is also included.

Feel free to critique & add fields.
Thanks Sid

 

[N4843W]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Sid, that is great. I was thinking of posting "someone should do a common form for all to use" but afraid someone would then say, "Well, Scotty, DO IT already!" and I sure do not have your aeronautical prowess.

Seems to me the 114's all look about the same and that the 112 looks less. As I think it through, This seems logical given the heavier nose of the 114.

 

[jrichards]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Thanks, Sid, for the form... and note to Scott: the out of trim condition is pushing the nose down so actually it seems a heavier nose would result in less down elevator. I should add however, that we have flown 114's loaded way forward to tease the elevators and found nil effect on the streamlining.

Jim

 

[N4843W]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Jim, thanks for the call re: the actuator bushing. My mechanic wanted to get everything back together today and left me a message that he just fired up the lathe and made one!

 

[jrichards]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Hi Scott,

It is important he made the bushing from Oilite stock, not brass, otherwise the bushing will be too strong and more likely to spin-out.

Jim

 

[wab003]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Jim,

My empirical evidence supports what you said about streamlining impact... I'm a 112A and I need much more nose down trim than the 114's but my in-trim elevator/horiz stab offset is very close to the same as the 114's.

 

[sfaret]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Don't forget the Hot Shot with a 3 blade.
That feels heavy the first time.

Sunday I flew with FS and we looked back. Seemed as if almost no concern with the elevator- front just a tinge up. Not like yesteryear. I was also very light that day requiring that for the events of the day, with a FWD CG.

 

[Lonnie Steverson]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Jim just count me in my is worse I am looking for 220 kts that was advertised a few years back by a company in OK. If you just put retractable steps on it and also put 5 second gear retraction you will be getting close. ha ha Wonder where he is now? I was so close to sending 13,500 deposit for that but thank the Lord I didnt

 

[sfaret]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

ha ha Wonder where he is now?

He's push'in Tulips.
(died in prison)

 

[N4843W]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

oilite confirmed!

Hi Scott,

It is important he made the bushing from Oilite stock, not brass, otherwise the bushing will be too strong and more likely to spin-out.

Jim

 

[rrolland]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Photos from today.

The first two photos are in cruise at 4,500. Inflight weight was 2500 Lbs. TAS 144 Knots.

I then reduce the airspeed to see at what speed the elevator would align with the stabilizer. Second set of photos. Same weight, altitude. INdicated was 107 KIAS and TAS was 116 Knots.

Richard

 

[Lonnie Steverson]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Jim that sounds good just count me in. I think you should also have retractable steps like a guy did from OK it was supposed to give you 220kts. Wonder where that guy is now I almost gave him 13,500 deposit but didnt thank the Lord.

 

[KikoandPat]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

6,000' weight estimated 3000 lbs TAS 130

 

[janderson]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Hi Lonnie; I think you are referring to Bob Cordray. he's 6 ft. under now. died of a heart attack in prison.

Judi

Jim that sounds good just count me in. I think you should also have retractable steps like a guy did from OK it was supposed to give you 220kts. Wonder where that guy is now I almost gave him 13,500 deposit but didnt thank the Lord.

 

[bradmc]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Hi Lonnie; I think you are referring to Bob Cordray. he's 6 ft. under now. died of a heart attack in prison.

Judi

He's still accepting checks, so send the money to him, Lonnie.

The top speed is now 225kts.

 

[jrichards]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Hi Pat and Kiko,

Thanks for the pic. TAS 130? You must mean IAS (what you see the needle pointing to on the airspeed indicator).

Jim

 

[jrichards]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Hi Richard,

Thanks. The dual observations are helpful.

Jim

 

[KikoandPat]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Jim, you are correct! it is IAS.

Kiko

 

[Alex]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Photos from today.

The first two photos are in cruise at 4,500. Inflight weight was 2500 Lbs. TAS 144 Knots.

I then reduce the airspeed to see at what speed the elevator would align with the stabilizer. Second set of photos. Same weight, altitude. INdicated was 107 KIAS and TAS was 116 Knots.

Richard

Richard, That was my observation as well. I did the exact process and realised the airplane was in level flight with the stabilizer flush with the elevators at about 110 IAS on mine.

You have just verified my findings. This makes me to believe that the stabilizer was set at a speed of around 110 IAS + or - a few knots. Which leads me to believe that the designers expected these 114s to be flying at altitudes at which with wide open throtles would yield 110 IAS.

Thats just my thoughts. "To each his own." Says Sven.

 

[rrolland]

Re: The "8 Knot Mod"

Could it be that the designers got it wrong? Power was very low in order to maintain the IAS. I had 2300 RPM and around 20 MAP. Lower than what a normal cruise setting would normally be set at even in an era of expensive gas (late seventies).

Richard