New Wanna-be Commander Owner

[Tommar98]

Hello. I've been looking at purchasing an aircraft for some time. I am working on my instrument now. My brother is my CFI. He has about 3000 hrs, singles, twins, ATP, all that. I've talked about the Commander 114 to him and like so many other pilots his only info is from non-owners and anecdotal stories. No need to repeat the issues here -you've all heard them before.

I fly out of 7B2 in Northampton. So here is the real kicker -and probably stumbling block - my wife has been smitten with the aviation bug and she has started on her private.

So it didn't take long to see how fast the money is spent with both of taking lessons and renting (and that is even without my brother charging for his time). Ideally I would like to look at 114 -and yes my wife would have to do all her training in it and likely wouldn't solo for 30-40 hours - but there;s no rush. And I have looked into the insurance already -its manageable. With all that said it would be great if we could get a close up look (and maybe a spin around the airport) at one of these fine planes and also talk about experience with ownership, etc. Thanks in advance

 

[proppilot]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Hi Thomas, I know you say 114 but don't discount a 112/112TC or 112 Hotshot right out of the gate. Chuck Wright just recently purchased a beautifully outfitted 112 over at KTAN which is 75 miles to your East so sort of in your neighbourhood. He is on the board here and may be a good one to show you what one looks like.

 

[FS]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

You missed the gathering at 44N in May, which won't happen again until next year. There are some 112s east of you, more 112s and a 114 (me) to the south, and a recently refurbished 112 and Aerodyme well north. But I can't think of anyone smack in the middle of MA near you.

 

[Tommar98]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Hi Thomas, I know you say 114 but don't discount a 112/112TC or 112 Hotshot right out of the gate. Chuck Wright just recently purchased a beautifully outfitted 112 over at KTAN which is 75 miles to your East so sort of in your neighbourhood. He is on the board here and may be a good one to show you what one looks like.

I believe the only issue with the 112 is useful load. I can’t seem to find a 112tc near 1000 or more lbs



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[Tommar98]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

You missed the gathering at 44N in May, which won't happen again until next year. There are some 112s east of you, more 112s and a 114 (me) to the south, and a recently refurbished 112 and Aerodyme well north. But I can't think of anyone smack in the middle of MA near you.

I don’t mind flying to see one. I need to get country time so VT, ME, CT, NJ would be fine


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[alim]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

112TC empty weight ~1850.
I am sitting around ~1900+ Empty but looking to gain some back as I ditch the vacuum system, go to a lightweight starter etc.

Max take-off is 2850 for a TC - thats 1000 lbs right there.
If you look at a TCA ( a year newer model), you end up with 2950 max gross and thats your easy 1000.

ps. Most of my flights (not super-long x-country) are with 48 Gallons std. I don't go to 68 gallons unless headed NY-Miami or similar. Makes local ops easy my usual mission profile : NY - DC , etc.

 

[N1049j]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Tom chuck here! Yes I also always loved them and decided to buy prior to learning to fly one. Hey if your brothers a CFI maybe he has some time and fly down to KWDR and help me fly it back to my home base of KTAN and then you can ride in it. Has your brother flown one before.

 

[Tommar98]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Tom chuck here! Yes I also always loved them and decided to buy prior to learning to fly one. Hey if your brothers a CFI maybe he has some time and fly down to KWDR and help me fly it back to my home base of KTAN and then you can ride in it. Has your brother flown one before.

Chuck. My brother has not flown one. Are you purchasing one in GA to train on?


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[Tommar98]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

112TC empty weight ~1850.
I am sitting around ~1900+ Empty but looking to gain some back as I ditch the vacuum system, go to a lightweight starter etc.

Max take-off is 2850 for a TC - thats 1000 lbs right there.
If you look at a TCA ( a year newer model), you end up with 2950 max gross and thats your easy 1000.

ps. Most of my flights (not super-long x-country) are with 48 Gallons std. I don't go to 68 gallons unless headed NY-Miami or similar. Makes local ops easy my usual mission profile : NY - DC , etc.

That's good rob to know. The ones I've seen listed for sale all were in mid 800's. What do you get for performance?


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[N1049j]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

I did already and it just finished its annual and some other work I had done on it. I have got a few hours on it and was planning to get signed off in Georgia. I would love to get it back to Taunton and train in the Northeast. Maybe he could help out and you could also get a chance when we get it back to Taunton.

 

[gmores]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

That's good rob to know. The ones I've seen listed for sale all were in mid 800's. What do you get for performance?


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[Pchaser]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Thomas,
Your more than welcome to do a short x-country to 5B2 (70 miles) and I can take you up in a 112a.
Saratoga is a great place to visit this time of year with a easy access airport! Reading thru the posts I was wondering what you and the wife are presently flying?

 

[FS]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

I don’t mind flying to see one. I need to get country time so VT, ME, CT, NJ would be fine

I'll let the other northeasterners pipe in when they see your post. Fred at 5B2 is a little closer than I am (KISP, 95 nm south of you). Besides mine, the other 114s up here that come to mind are in NJ and PA. There is (was) one or two in eastern MA but those owners don't participate here very frequently. You're welcome to come visit at KISP, but riding in mine is problematic these days as I've got all but the pilot's seat out of the airplane.

You might want to call up to Aerodyme, in Burlington,VT. It's a very long trip for you (130 nm), but Jim almost always has at least one Commander in his shop. Again, getting a ride in one will likely be an issue since they're in for various reasons, but maybe you'll luck into a ride in a Super Commander.

 

[plight]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Thomas,

Welcome to the Dream (team). The choice between a 112 versus 114 will really come down to mission and budget. Super stable aircraft and ideal for your IFR training. Best to talk to Judi Anderson, about which specific bird to set your sights on. She know's everything about almost all (if not all) of the Commanders built. Starting with a ride is a wise first step.

 

[alim]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

IMHO -

I JUMPED into airplane ownership in 2000.
All I knew was that I wanted to buy a commander.
Web boards were relatively new and while chatty - there was info but not lots of good info.


I took my budget, put bounds on it and came up with a 112-112TC/A response.
I didn't know a TC from a TCA. Didn't know a 112A from a B and so on.

I ended up buying a 112TC and got lucky that it met my performance and budget needs at the same time. It still fits my mission profile nearly 20 yrs later.


in 2018 - you have :
- a wealth of filtered information. The snake oil salesmen have been driven out of commander land.
- a fanatical commander web board which supports the airplane as a hobby, an investment, a business means as well as a way of life.
- a relatively depressed marketplace across all makes and models. But remember the acquisition cost isn't a factor in OPEX.

I suggest you spend a lot of time here as well as getting a few demo rides lined up and then make the best decision for yourself. It will also be a calming exercise in knowing that you're going into a well supported make.


ps. Judi Anderson is a class act. My acquisition deal with her fell through - the seller wasn't responsive. In the end I ended up buying from another owner directly. Judi advised me through it as if I were still her client. If your deal is a commander deal, she also happens to have a lot more info on each serial number than you can pull up in an FAA incidents database.

 

[Jamesdub]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Morning Thomas and welcome to the COG!

I'm coming up on eight years of ownership (my first) of a 114. I've said it before but I have to pinch myself often to make sure I'm not dreaming. It is very comfortable and I find a stable instrument platform, sure I'd like to go a few knots faster but I'll trade the speed any day for our comfort and payload. Ramp appeal is another thing that is hard to get used to as everyone wants to take a look and chat about our birds.

Okay, now I'll set myself up to be hung by my toes at the next fly-in.

"IF" I and my wife were working on our ratings I 'might' not look at a high-performance complex type to start with. I considered myself semi-experienced (4k+ hrs) when I acquired the 114 and she was a handful of an airplane initially. Learning curve soon leveled out and I'm sure with enough instruction / exposure you and your wife will adjust to the routine and do just fine.
I was thinking you may consider acquiring a trainer (Beech Skipper) or (Grumman Traveler/Tiger) or (Cessna 152) then move up to an AC11 after you've gotten those training hours and less than smooth landings out of the way.

But if you are set on the Commander, and again you'll do just fine, if you can swing it I'd look at the 114 B Model. Just a newer airframe with less wear and tear and will come with many of the features that you will want to upgrade an earlier model to. and one last note, most of our fleet is semi-low time so if you go with an earlier model it will probably have MANY useful hours left on it.

Welcome again and good luck,
John

 

[Tommar98]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Thomas,
Your more than welcome to do a short x-country to 5B2 (70 miles) and I can take you up in a 112a.
Saratoga is a great place to visit this time of year with a easy access airport! Reading thru the posts I was wondering what you and the wife are presently flying?

I've been working in an arrow and archer - depends whats available. She just got started and is flying a warrior.

 

[Tommar98]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

I'll let the other northeasterners pipe in when they see your post. Fred at 5B2 is a little closer than I am (KISP, 95 nm south of you). Besides mine, the other 114s up here that come to mind are in NJ and PA. There is (was) one or two in eastern MA but those owners don't participate here very frequently. You're welcome to come visit at KISP, but riding in mine is problematic these days as I've got all but the pilot's seat out of the airplane.

You might want to call up to Aerodyme, in Burlington,VT. It's a very long trip for you (130 nm), but Jim almost always has at least one Commander in his shop. Again, getting a ride in one will likely be an issue since they're in for various reasons, but maybe you'll luck into a ride in a Super Commander.

Frank: Not sure if you have any availability on July 27th? My brother and I might be able to take a trip down KISP. LMK Thanks

 

[Tommar98]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

I did already and it just finished its annual and some other work I had done on it. I have got a few hours on it and was planning to get signed off in Georgia. I would love to get it back to Taunton and train in the Northeast. Maybe he could help out and you could also get a chance when we get it back to Taunton.

Well Since my brother doesn't have any time in a Commander he couldn't really serve as a CFII. He does have someone nearby who has flown them if you needed someone (who no doubt charges for their services). Hopefully we can meet up when you are in Taunton.

 

[FS]

Re: New Wanna-be Commander Owner

Not sure if you have any availability on July 27th?

That's a workday for me (Friday). The 28th I have a prior commitment. The 29th (Sunday) should be open.