Good morning new member in Denver

[Codeeno]

Good morning all,

I'm a new member trying to buy my first plane and think the Commander 112 May be an option. I welcome any advice and thoughts. I've got a bit of altitude here (5800 field elevation) so turbo/non-turbo discussions are welcome.

Primary VFR (until I get my instrument) flights Denver to Corpus Christi or Oklahoma City or Northern California for myself and maybe 1 or 2 others.

Before I got serious I saw several 112a and 112tc sell between 40 and 50. Which is where I want to stay.

I welcome any comments or advice. I'm also considering a Bellanca Super Viking.

Thanks

Dean

 

[davloose]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Denver with pax? Turbo.

 

[Commander91gm]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

High altitude flying all the time in a 112TCA - Constantly in and out of SOW which is 6412' and our daughter lives in Colorado, GUC 7680', 7V2 5798'
Great plane just stick with a turbo version based on where you are.

Pass on the wood wings.

 

[Codeeno]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Thanks for the replies! I saw one in MT in July and thought hmmm this might be a great plane, but, I hadn't gotten serious about it. Now that I am serious and set up, that plane has sold, so next LOL

 

[TSHEMMEN]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

I fly out of Prescott AZ with the field elevation of 5000' and own a 112A with the hot shot conversion. I just came back yesterday from a round trip to Houston and would not feel as comfortable without the turbo flying from high elevation airports. Once you advance the throttle to the full position and then add the additional power from the turbo, it is unbelievable the added power! Would not be without it.

 

[gmores]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Welcome Dean. You definitely want the Hot Shot or a turbo. I've been out west a couple of times with my NA 112 and definitely would install the Hot Shot if I spent any significant time in that area. But it's not much of an issue along the east coast.

 

[Kevin Dixon]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Great question and I pondered the same thought prior to buying the only 112TCA in Australia 20 years ago. 7310' is the highest (fixed) object we have and although Take Off and Landing altitudes are not so much an issue I do really enjoy never running out of power. I also have portable oxygen for those occasions where winds are more favorable up higher. From the altitudes being spoken of go for the Turbo! Most importantly enjoy your flying.

 

[kgrant]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

In your part of the country, cruising 8-12, you'll want the Turbo. Study the differences between Hotshot & TCA. They are very different systems that require engine management to achieve performance you'll need.

My only other advice: Don't be a bottom feeder on price. Ask Judy to guide you. k

 

[nruzic]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Definitely turbo to get the power at the high MSL and specially summertime density altitudes you'll be flying you need the power at altitude.

Its what turbocharging is best used for & along with that portable Oxygen bottle conveniently installed in the plane with cannulas with flow regulators.

Please talk to Judi send her a message via this board she is as important as a prebuy in fact she should be part of the prebuy so you thoroughly know the history of the airplanes you're checking.
Happy hunting
Sid

 

[Codeeno]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Kelly,

I thought the Hot Shot was a conversion to Turbo - so hmmm a new mystery is afoot! LOL I will have to look for more info.

I am trying not to be a bottom feeder, but, I also know that I don't have lots of disposable income - I need to buy it right the first time. A hangar queen would be a nightmare for me.

Who is Judi?

Thanks

Dean

In your part of the country, cruising 8-12, you'll want the Turbo. Study the differences between Hotshot & TCA. They are very different systems that require engine management to achieve performance you'll need.

My only other advice: Don't be a bottom feeder on price. Ask Judy to guide you. k

 

[janderson]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Hi, Dean; I'm Judi.
pls pm or email me w/any questions you may hv.

Judi Anderson

 

[Commander91gm]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Kelly,

I thought the Hot Shot was a conversion to Turbo - so hmmm a new mystery is afoot! LOL I will have to look for more info.

I am trying not to be a bottom feeder, but, I also know that I don't have lots of disposable income - I need to buy it right the first time. A hangar queen would be a nightmare for me.

Who is Judi?

Thanks

Dean

Judi is the Commander goddess!

There is both a factory turbo version, (TC&TCA) and the Hot Shot which is a turbo normalized conversion for 112 series.

 

[JimParker256]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

I thought the Hot Shot was a conversion to Turbo - so hmmm a new mystery is afoot! LOL I will have to look for more info.

The Hot Shot conversion is turbo-normalizing, versus turbo-charging. TN maintains sea-level normally aspirated power to the high-teen altitudes, while the turbo-charged models (TC & TCA) actually boost the engine to considerably above sea-level normally aspirated power. There are pros and cons to each, so do research and talk to the experts here.

Who is Judi?

Judi Anderson is the "GodMother" for the COG members. She has data on almost every one of the Commanders in the fleet, and can tell you stuff about them that you might not learn about any other way. Twice, she alerted me to take a closer look at a "good deal" airplane, and both times, I came to realize there were issues I just didn't want to deal with. She is an excellent place to start for information about Commanders in general, or about any specific airplane you have interest in. She is also a broker who can help you find the right plane for your needs.

Carl Lee (who responded to your post as well, and sells the Hot Shot STCs for both 112s and 114s) is a great resource on those planes. Other COG members will have information about the TC/TCA models.

One thing you said concerned me just a bit...

I am trying not to be a bottom feeder, but, I also know that I don't have lots of disposable income - I need to buy it right the first time. A hangar queen would be a nightmare for me.

One thing you have to realize is that most of these airplanes are almost 40 years old, and things do break, wear out, or just need "tweaking" from time to time. You should have sufficient financial resources to deal with those unexpected, unplanned occurrences. Otherwise, you might truly find yourself with a hangar queen that you can't afford to keep airworthy. There is a reason 172s sold in much larger quantities than any of the complex retractables... If your finances are marginal, you might want to consider a partner to help reduce the costs.

Good luck, and welcome to the COG!

 

[TKutchera]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Dean,

Welcome to COG. I was born and raised in COS. Learned to fly 152s at 6,200' so know about density altitude. I have a 114 and would want a turbo or hot shot if I still flew in CO.

Best move would be to get in touch with Judi. Just don't listen to her advice about football teams

Although the Broncos are not firing on all cylinders today.

Tim

 

[Codeeno]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

I spoke with Judi today - wow she is an amazing person with a wealth of knowledge! We talked all things Commander which is really good as I would not want to discuss football!

 

[RNC]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

I agree that if you want a Commander in the mountain states, you need the turbo (sans a 320hp converted 114).

There are other airplanes with good short field numbers without a turbo...Cherokees for instance do ok, but non-turbo Commanders are not it. The bulk of the gear coupled with sitting high off the ground, it's just not going to want to get up in thin air without a little oomph from somewhere.

 

[Commander91gm]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

I agree that if you want a Commander in the mountain states, you need the turbo (sans a 320hp converted 114).

There are other airplanes with good short field numbers without a turbo...Cherokees for instance do ok, but non-turbo Commanders are not it. The bulk of the gear coupled with sitting high off the ground, it's just not going to want to get up in thin air without a little oomph from somewhere.

Had a Cherokee before the Commander and used to scare the S--- out of me to depart from hot high airports. Stick to Turbo.

 

[Sherman]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Hi Dean. Welcome to the greatest Group (COG) pilots/Owners you'll ever meet. Kelly, Alan , Joel gave you seasoned counsel. I've owned a factory Turbo 22 yrs and dud a lit if BAL - OUN cross countries in the 90's at 14,500-16500. Even in the East. Summer high humidity temps - Turbo boost is very valuable. See RCM performance chart on weblink. Note factory Turbo = one Throttle control for carb & wastegate. Hit Shot mod two controls. Engine Fuel injection. So different management requirements.

 

[RNC]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Had a Cherokee before the Commander and used to scare the S--- out of me to depart from hot high airports. Stick to Turbo.

IMO the Cherokee 235s/236s are admirable short field airplanes, since they're a bit overpowered particularly with a 3 blade prop. I used to fly a Dakota, and with the manual flap handle added to the mix you could get it up in a hurry.

Now the 160hp and less Cherokees are no better off than a 112, in all likelihood.

 

[gmores]

Re: Good morning new member in Denver

Now the 160hp and less Cherokees are no better off than a 112, in all likelihood.

Worse. I flew a 140 a bit for flight training. After the first flight I nicknamed it the 'Turnip'


Now flying a 112 with about 20 gallons of fuel and all the junk I usually haul around taken out is pretty peppy.