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Thoughts and advice - VFR trip in 2 mos - Denver CO, Palm Springs CA, Napa CA, Denver CO

Codeeno

Codeeno

Well-known member
Supporting Member
Denver, CO
Aircraft Year
1976
Aircraft Type
114
Reg Number
N4742W
Serial Number
14072
Ok, so I'm starting to plan a bit of an adventure/trip. This will be a series of flights. If there is bad weather or a series of storms stacked up - I will be taking Southwest and not having my adventure. My dates are also not entirely set in stone, so I have some cushion to adjust for weather as well on my initial departure. Again - if the weather is icky for a while, I will be flying commercial.

I am looking for anyone's who's flown the routes and any advice on routing. Specifically my return from Napa, CA - there's a ton of restricted air space. So anyone with VFR experience or who's flown it - I invite you to throw ideas out. I typically fly with flight following and I appreciate the benefits of that service.

If February, I am planning this trip - normally aspirated 114, with O2 onboard - VFR flights. Here are the legs:

Leg 1: KCFO to KPSP (Denver to Palm Springs)
I am planning on heading over to Grand Junction then head southwest to Palm Springs - I will need a fuel/bladder stop along the way - seems pretty straight forward

Leg 2: KPSP to KAPC (Palm Springs to Napa) - my sister lives there so that's where I am heading.
My initial thoughts are a northwest departure. Getting on the west side of the Sierra Nevadas early. Around Fresno there are some MOAs but, there is a corridor between them. This should be a straight forward flight without a stop.

Leg 3. KACP to KCFO (Napa to Denver)
My initial thoughts are either head northeast towards Reno to cross terrain then head east - lots of MOAs and restricted airspace. Or head east, climbing to about 13,500 and going East. Not a lot of fuel stops and plenty of MOA's and restricted space.

Thoughts or ideas?

Dean
 
Dean, I've done part of this trip (southern Utah KKNB to Bay area Califorinia KPAO/KRHV) three times in the three months I've had my Commander so far... Recognize my inexperience, but a few thoughts!

Leg 1: Plenty of good fuel stops. Give a shout if you choose KKNB, self-serve only but usually competitive prices; not much around so really just a fuel/bladder stop. From here to Palm Springs I usually go at 10,500 right over KLAS; but I've also gone south over Lake Mead (such as it is these days) for the view. I'm usually hugging the MOAs to the north (going roughly KLAS -> KDAG), heading to Palm Springs will give some more clearance. Another option to optimize for scenery would be to fuel in Page (KPGA), fly (at least) one of the Grand Canyon corridors, and stay on the south side avoiding Vegas. Silver MOA is hit or miss on active, but the restricteds are often hot.

Leg 2: Yeah, straight forward. Lemoore is usually active, I'd generally stay in the central valley east of it. One thing to consider (although it can be a game time decision) is that, especially if pressure is high, the haze in the central valley can be anywhere from "not very pretty" to "can't see the ground clearly." If it's ugly I'll generally hop to the west side of the hills as far south as Paso Robles (KPRB), although continuing to Napa this will mean flying over the busiest part of the Bay Area. More workload -- but for the scenic route, this is 100% the right choice, you'll want to do the Bay Tour (search for it by name) at least following the coast north from KHAF, flying over the Golden Gate and Alcatraz and then cutting up to Napa can't be beat.

Leg 3: I've both started and ended south of you, so gone with Mammoth pass when going direct, not I-80. 13,500 works (I'm a 112TC) -- but it certainly doesn't feel too high. Crossing the Sierras, especially in winter, at this kind of altitude inevitably means there's some window of time -- a half hour or so -- where a loss-of-power emergency is unlikely to be survivable. Purely a comfort level thing. I'm not familiar with the restricted areas and MOAs east of Reno, but at least for the other big chunks in Nevada, flight following won't have status until you're pretty darn close. I generally plan on shooting the gap between Sevier and Reveille/Desert, and then inevitably find out that Reveille/Desert is cold and just cut that corner. If I were crossing at Reno I'd probably plan the same sort of thing, south around Fallon and then cutting the corner if cold. Haven't done a fuel stop on this leg since KPAO->KKNB is just about the limit of my range.
 
Adam - thanks - I appreciate your input. I really hadn't thought too much of the Bay Tour - so awesome you brought it up.

Dean
 
Dean, what route are you looking at for Denver to grand junction? Rollins pass? I’ve never done the Rockies before and am looking at visiting a friend in Boulder.
 
I've done the Rockies number of times and you're flying the TCA - don't get that concerned about the passes just slap on some oxygen and go high.
 
Fair. Still waiting for the throttle cable re-rig work to go above 14k, soon!
 
addaon said:
Dean, what route are you looking at for Denver to grand junction? Rollins pass? I’ve never done the Rockies before and am looking at visiting a friend in Boulder.
Click to expand...

Yes - Rollins pass. If I can depart super early in the AM - I can usually get cleared into the Bravo, so I can climb crossing Denver, then it's easy and nice. If it's later, then I get to stay outside the Bravo, circle around north or south, then spiral climb up once I am nearer the pass and outside the Bravo.

Dean
 
Joel - yes - the passes are for us "normal" people. LOL just kidding but - yes - 42w has a very lumber-ish climb above 11 or 12K.

Dean
 
Does Denver tend to refuse Bravo transitions? I think in a hundred or so flights in the Bay Area, San Francisco only refused me once.
 
Codeeno said:
Joel - yes - the passes are for us "normal" people. LOL just kidding but - yes - 42w has a very lumber-ish climb above 11 or 12K.

Dean
Click to expand...

That definitely is one of the benefits of being turbocharged. It's one of the main reasons why I chose the TCA. In general I can see 500 ft per minute climbs all the way up. Pretty common for me to be at 15.5k going east
 
addaon said:
Does Denver tend to refuse Bravo transitions? I think in a hundred or so flights in the Bay Area, San Francisco only refused me once.
Click to expand...

Southern and Northern California has always been wonderful. I don't have much experience with Denver but I will tell you not to waste your time in the Phoenix area asking for a transition because you probably won't get it.
 
addaon said:
Does Denver tend to refuse Bravo transitions? I think in a hundred or so flights in the Bay Area, San Francisco only refused me once.
Click to expand...

Adam,

KCFO (my airport) is about 7 miles from KDEN - so there is not an easy way for me to transition being so close to them. The same is true for a return to KCFO - so typically, when it's a $100 hamburger - they keep me out of the Bravo. I've not transitioned from the Bravo in a cross country - so not sure. There is a VFR corridor along the west side of I-25 for North and South traffic.

So if you are going to Boulder, you can either drop through Rollins pass or a southern route and use the I-25 corridor.

Regardless of turbo or not - mornings are the safest time to transit the passes - typically. There is a mountain flying course that the Colorado Pilot's Association put's on. I highly recommend it. Getting my rating in OK a long time ago - I never gave mountain flying a lot of thought. When I got to Denver and 42w came into my life, I figured I needed to change that and took the course. I learned a lot - and if you do the flying portion - it counts as a Flight Review.

Dean
 
Hi Dean,

I fly a north or south route depending on weather/winds to avoid the higher mountains when flying to KFLY just south of you from southern California.
north route: KRAL HEC LAS PVU Provo pass KHCR EVW KRWL CYS KFLY
good overnight stop would be Spanish Fork, Utah by Provo
south route: KRAL TNP EED INW OTO KLVS KFLY
good overnight stop would be Winslow, Arizona

I do not fly my 114 from Grand Junction to the Denver area anymore, not enough options for me VFR with a NA plane.
Besides I like to fly and in no hurry these days

Take care,
Bob
 
Dean,
forgot to mention, you have three options going north to Napa
the coast route may have fog
the Central Valley route may have haze with low visibility
the Owens valley route on the east side of the mountain range may have some good bumps
Bob
 
Bob7 said:
Dean,
forgot to mention, you have three options going north to Napa
the coast route may have fog
the Central Valley route may have haze with low visibility
the Owens valley route on the east side of the mountain range may have some good bumps
Bob
Click to expand...

Bob,

Thanks for that. I hadn’t thought to much about fog and haze. I agree east of the Sierra’s is most likely the bumpiest. I’m leaning toward central to east side of the valley. Today. Not know what weather will be like in a month….lol

Dean
 
Sounds like a great adventure. I don’t live near but the terrain west of Denver would take some study. With a casual glance I’d likely want to go South, maybe North if the weather allows. One could look further out to see what route makes sense getting into CA.

It is easier to thread the needle with special use airspace, even with an iPad representation. May or may not be cold, often in real-time it’s not as bad as it looks planning.

I have a plan in the back pocket to fly to Salt Lake towards Spring, possibly. My route takes me near I-80, North a bit, then the Salt Lake basin.
 
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