The Other Guy

[Jamesdub]

Yesterday on a medium x-country for an EAA Breakfast flying across the central plains of Georgia the surrounding aircraft got an earful of an 'oh crap' from ATC.

Checking in with Atlanta App for flight following (one of those few - not a cloud in the sky days). George is doing his thing and I'm actually reading up on short field grass ops in our POH. (2800' Sod destination).

When we hear, 'Cessna XXXX turn to heading 360* IMMEDIATELY!' 'You are in the middle of the Fort Benning Restricted Area.' Having worked that area in the past I know he's probably about to make a mess in the cockpit.

He responded and complied and once clear came those dreaded words, "Prepare to copy for a possible Pilot Deviation". Then - it seemed like an hour but more like two minutes later ATC calls him back. During that lull I wanted to break in on the net and relay to him to 'keep flying the plane' you know his brains have poured out into his headphones by now.

Elsewhere not any traffic on the frequency then fully unexpected to me - Atlanta informs him they are NOT going to violate him today and proceeds to give a long lecture on the importance of situational awareness and remaining clear of restrictive airspace. (I actually felt a sigh of relief for the poor guy.)

Guess if there is a takeaway, let's be careful out there . . . Clear Skies

 

[hljr]

Well since they knew who he was, likely he was on flight following. They probably shared in the situation, hence no violation.

​​​​​​

 

[wiguy]

Some type of flying app should easily keep one out of trouble, Foreflight, Garmin Pilot, etc. If flying local one should have a handle on local gotchas. Then we have ‘flight following’ as another tool.

Things happen of course, worse things could happen too.

 

[Commander91gm]

Yesterday on a medium x-country for an EAA Breakfast flying across the central plains of Georgia the surrounding aircraft got an earful of an 'oh crap' from ATC.

Checking in with Atlanta App for flight following (one of those few - not a cloud in the sky days). George is doing his thing and I'm actually reading up on short field grass ops in our POH. (2800' Sod destination).

When we hear, 'Cessna XXXX turn 360* IMMEDIATELY!' 'You are in the middle of the Fort Benning Restricted Area.' Having worked that area in the past I know he's probably about to make a mess in the cockpit.

He responded and complied and once clear came those dreaded words, "Prepare to copy for a possible Pilot Deviation". Then - it seemed like an hour but more like two minutes later ATC calls him back. During that lull I wanted to break in on the net and relay to him to 'keep flying the plane' you know his brains have poured out into his headphones by now.

Elsewhere not any traffic on the frequency then fully unexpected to me - Atlanta informs him they are NOT going to violate him today and proceeds to give a long lecture on the importance of situational awareness and remaining clear of restrictive airspace. (I actually felt a sigh of relief for the poor guy.)

Guess if there is a takeaway, let's be careful out there . . . Clear Skies

Hopefully that was a 180 and not a 360

 

[alim]

be aware : flight following by itself will not keep you out of trouble.
Recent example : on flight up from Florida to NY : on LEG RDU ---> Caldwell, NJ via . RDU -> LVL ->RIC -> PXT ->ENO->CDW - i was 25 miles from PXT.
Restricted area R-4007 is bang smack in the middle around PXT - which i usually traverse and the controllers ack it or call it out.
20 miles out - i was watching it. ATC silent
10 miles out - ATC silent on it.
At the 5 mile mark before i bust through - i queried if R-4007 was active. PXT approach came back with negative. Please plan to skirt it - which i had already loaded into the flight plan.
This could easily have turned into a closed airspace ingress.
Flight following is really advisory. I don't believe it would be ATC's fault if i had busted it.

9 / 10 ATC DOES call out restricted airspace in our paths - which is good,. But also makes us complacent.

 

[Jamesdub]

Hopefully that was a 180 and not a 360

Joel,

Sorry I was trying to use the * for degrees . . they stated 360 degrees. Yeah last thing you want is to be doing circles inside a restricted area.

 

[Commander91gm]

be aware : flight following by itself will not keep you out of trouble.
Recent example : on flight up from Florida to NY : on LEG RDU ---> Caldwell, NJ via . RDU -> LVL ->RIC -> PXT ->ENO->CDW - i was 25 miles from PXT.
Restricted area R-4007 is bang smack in the middle around PXT - which i usually traverse and the controllers ack it or call it out.
20 miles out - i was watching it. ATC silent
10 miles out - ATC silent on it.
At the 5 mile mark before i bust through - i queried if R-4007 was active. PXT approach came back with negative. Please plan to skirt it - which i had already loaded into the flight plan.
This could easily have turned into a closed airspace ingress.
Flight following is really advisory. I don't believe it would be ATC's fault if i had busted it.

9 / 10 ATC DOES call out restricted airspace in our paths - which is good,. But also makes us complacent.

At least out west - flying airways generally keeps you out of the restricted areas. Still need to watch and plan!

 

[Commander91gm]

Joel,

Sorry I was trying to use the * for degrees . . they stated 360 degrees. Yeah last thing you want is to be doing circles inside a restricted area.

I got it - Good chuckle!!!

 

[alim]

At least out west - flying airways generally keeps you out of the restricted areas. Still need to watch and plan!

Unless you're IFR, flying victor airways will NOT keep you out of restricted airspace on the east coast.

 

[Commander91gm]

Unless you're IFR, flying victor airways will NOT keep you out of restricted airspace on the east coast.

I agree not always - but out here is does most of the time - Check out the attached.

 

[alim]

I agree not always - but out here is does most of the time - Check out the attached.

well- with those high speed UFOs - even IFR traffic needs to stay clear. One of the advantages of wide(r) open spaces ....

 

[rringgold]

In September of ‘17 on the way to Ft Collins while on flight following , I came upon a military restricted area. I casually asked FSS if this area would be active today. Just a minute he says, “ as a matter of fact it goes active in 15 minutes “ you should probably deviate! No warning unless you ask ahead of time apparently. I’m sure I inquired when I checked weather before I left, which was the night before. I can hear the FSS agent saying “check back tomorrow “. CYA. With ADS-B in, there really is no reason to not know where you are...unless your airplane is terrifically fast. Ever hear the story about Aspen 327?

 

[jukelemon]

be aware : flight following by itself will not keep you out of trouble.
Recent example : on flight up from Florida to NY : on LEG RDU ---> Caldwell, NJ via . RDU -> LVL ->RIC -> PXT ->ENO->CDW - i was 25 miles from PXT.
Restricted area R-4007 is bang smack in the middle around PXT - which i usually traverse and the controllers ack it or call it out.
20 miles out - i was watching it. ATC silent
10 miles out - ATC silent on it.
At the 5 mile mark before i bust through - i queried if R-4007 was active. PXT approach came back with negative. Please plan to skirt it - which i had already loaded into the flight plan.
This could easily have turned into a closed airspace ingress.
Flight following is really advisory. I don't believe it would be ATC's fault if i had busted it.

9 / 10 ATC DOES call out restricted airspace in our paths - which is good,. But also makes us complacent.

Yeah... as I understand it... IFR flight plans/ATC will always clear/deviate you around prohibited areas. VFR flight following will not... although many times they graciously do.

I try to ask about activity prior to entering and usually they will call down to the area and ask/get back with you.

 

[wab003]

I got it - Good chuckle!!!

I had to reread the post. Also my first thought Joel,... then realized "Turn 3-6-0" and had a good chuckle myself.

 

[mcgrathm]

Yeah... as I understand it... IFR flight plans/ATC will always clear/deviate you around prohibited areas. VFR flight following will not... although many times they graciously do.

I try to ask about activity prior to entering and usually they will call down to the area and ask/get back with you.

Yes, I never assume ATC will clear me or tell me to avoid restricted areas. I always ask well ahead of when I would have to deviate so I am not making radical turns to avoid. I look for them during my planning so I am prepared. What is nice I have the Bluetooth version of A20's and I am connected to the IPad and Foreflight will warning you audibly when getting close to restricted areas.

 

[Jamesdub]

Most if not all of my former flying had some type of special use airspace directly associated / connected to our home field.
Many of times we'd actually spend days inside a Restricted Area. (Fun while you were flying but down time was the pits . .) I guess this is where I 'may' have an edge on the G A type pilot in this aspect.

I probably should be more concerned about the obvious threat (Being shot down, lased or running into a drone) but its the Deviation Factor and it's potential repercussions that really gets my attention. Just don't want that hassle especially if I can avoid it.

So EVERY new flight to an area I'm not familiar with I plug in Departure / Destination and then run along the magenta line (route) mouse click by mouse click to see what's ahead. If there is a Blue Area / Restricted Area along the route I don't hesitate and plan to work around it (usually some sort of fix will be nearby to avoid it). I don't even entertain checking with their controlling agency for active times or what not, I simply avoid them. Don't get me wrong, if ATC offers direct through I'm all for that . . .

IFR planning and MOA's (Magenta Boxes) can also be a factor but ATC will definitely 'control' your routing / re-routing through those areas.

Another easily overlooked hazard is the MTR Mil Training Route. Most of the time they will begin / end at a MOA, duh. I'm guilty about not giving the MTR's their due but at the altitudes we normally fly they seem less of a threat, but I have looked 'Down' on a pair of German Tornados as they zoomed underneath me at 300kts doing their thing.

Least lets' not forget those pop up TFR's . . .