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Should the Commander be an Option?

B

buerlingp

New member
This is my first post to the group, and I am grateful there is some place that I can go with questions. I am in the market to purchase my first plane and I find the Commander 114 an attractive and reasonably priced option. As I started this journey I have run into two problems.

1) I got an insurance quote (lets say somewhere between $5000 and $9000) , which was much higher than I expected, even with a lot of retract Bonanza time. Is this the reality? The insurance agent also tried to talk me out of the Commander for reasons that were unclear, other than it is an expressive plane. Is this insurance cost first year pains, or is this realty year after year for Commander owners? Thoughts.

2) Insurance requires I fly 4 hours with a CFI with 50 hours time in make and model. I live in Ohio, where does one find such an instructor? Is there a registry of Commander CFIs?

Or, should I reconsider the Commander as a viable option?

Thanks to anyone willing to provide guidance - Peter
 
If you are IR rated and have decent time in retractable gear airplanes, I would think that $3500 - $4000 should be a reasonable annual premium for a $250,000 hull value.

I have mine insured for $275K hull value and have a Comm IR certificate and have a $3500 year annual premium, which really jumped alot this year when I turned 60.

Four years ago the premium was $1800 so it has definitely gone up over the past few years - and I have 40 years of zero claims.

I am seriously considering buying a fixed gear (Cessna) for my next plane as I get closer to 70. 182 or 206.
 
Judi on the group can put you in touch with a number of instructors that can come to you .
Mine flew down to PA from New England and trained MY instructor in an hour & 1/2 check ride the my guy trained me.
Raynor Stombeck @ 800-663-5118 for a quote on insurance and let him know that you are in the COG.
Don't let anyone talk you out of a Commander!
 
I guess to a large degree it depends on the value of the airplane you are looking at, but I'm paying under 2,000 a year for a million smooth. $9,000 sounds like a royal screwing and an agent trying to direct you to or from any particular plane seems beyond the scope of his position.
 
I would also back up to your intentions with the plane, numbers with, distance & type of flying. It sounds like you have good experience.

Yes, even my 112 gets more ramp attention than the average Piper or Cessna, not that it’s that important. I still think the average PA-28-180 has a lot of utility. I’ve been though it twice, but you’ll notice more than a few threads about gear problems.

It may be like ‘looking’ at puppies, but find a local owner to hook up with. Of course practicality isn’t everything either, the heart factors in. With many owners even that trip to the hangar for a wash or shine job is time well spent.
 
Aviation Insurance Resources has been very reasonable. (less than half of your lower quote) I do have a fair amount of time in AC11's, however pushing 70........

Note: Find someone to give you some time in one. If you like traveling, Commanders are the best!


Victoria Neuville

Agent, Commercial Pilot, CFI

Aviation Insurance Resources (AIR)

P.O. BOX 32 | Frederick, MD 21705

Ph 301-682-6200 | Fax 301-682-9793

vneuville@air-pros.com | www.air-pros.com
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@buerlingp welcome to the group. The commanders are awesome and I am sure you will be happy with it. The more time you have it on type, the better will be. I have a 112 with 70K hull value and my premium wasn't that expensive.

If you have a solid airplane and don't mind taking the risk, just go liability only for a couple of years.
 
Try AOPA insurance. When I started out with my 1975 112A in 2015, I paid under $2000 with around 300hrs and Zero RG time. I was lucky enough to have a insurance qualified CFI at my field to carry out the required type training. Eight years on I’m just over $2000.

If you go over 100K hull coverage, premiums will jump quite a bit. Just something to think about. But as others have said, the older and wiser we get, insurance companies take more dollars from us .
 
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Peter,
At my renewal in May for my 114, the premium was $1,960 for a hull value of $110k with $1M liability coverage. I am instrument rated, have no claims, and at the time had total time of just over 500 hrs, 230 hrs in retractables with about 180 hrs in the Commander. Prices see saw up and down each year, but I think my first year with the Commander cost me around $3,200 in 2020.
 
Peter, welcome to the group! There have been at least a half dozen accidents/incidents over the last few years involving Commanders. Specifically landing gear incidents.
I can’t comment on whether these were gear failures or from pilot error. Nonetheless, the insurance companies have developed a somewhat negative attitude towards the type.
It’s up to those of us who own and fly them to reverse this trend. The conscientious owner will do their part to
maintain the nose gear which is the weak link in this design. ( so I’ve been told )
Obviously, insuring that the gear are down and locked
has to be standard operating practice. “Three in the green” on downwind, base and final is what one former long time Commander owner and CFI taught me.
These airplanes are some of the best looking aircraft on any airport and extremely comfortable. Commanders require no more maintenance than any other complex single out there. Don’t let anyone steer you away from them. If they do, they are not the ones to take them to for maintenance, repairs or insurance.
Stick with the COG forum and you’ll get the answers for anything you need.
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed mine since I purchased it 7 years ago.
 
brhoad said:
Judi on the group can put you in touch with a number of instructors that can come to you .
Mine flew down to PA from New England and trained MY instructor in an hour & 1/2 check ride the my guy trained me.
Raynor Stombeck @ 800-663-5118 for a quote on insurance and let him know that you are in the COG.
Don't let anyone talk you out of a Commander!
Click to expand...

How can I get in contact with Judi?

Thanks - Peter
 
Peter, I have always loved the look and ramp appeal of the Commander and included it my list of aircraft when I was buying. l looked at and flew 8 different airplanes during that buying phase. Everything from Cirrus and Cessna to Piper's and Mooney's. I can honestly say that I am thrilled everyday that I went with my original love and went with the Commander. It is an absolute dream to fly and looks great sitting on the ramp.

Like other's have said, the insurance is high on the onset without time in type. If you can get over that initial year, it will start to drop significantly. Mine went from about $7,000 to $4,800 in the second year.

I am not sure where you are in Ohio but I have a great CFI in SE Michigan. He has a ton of time in Commanders and gave me some great insight into it's flying characteristics.

Good luck....you will not regret the decision.
 
What led me to a Commander:

1. Pilot's side door in a low wing.
2. Lycoming IO-540 engine - bullet proof (and quite frankly so are the IO-360's)
3. You don't touch shoulders with the human in the right seat.

I bought mine without ever having sat in or flown in a Commander. Sight unseen (Long Island NY and I am in Texas). My first flight in ANY Commander was when I was taking off from Long Island NY after I took delivery of mine. About 500' AGL I realized that this decision to buy this airplane sight unseen was a great decision. And my list of great decisions in my life is very short.

Don't do it without Judi.
 
A new thread on this insurance thing pops up about every few months or so. It's so hard to compare insurance due to so many variables. Do a search for insurance here on COG and you hopefully find the thread where those of us have stated our qualifiers (experience, type Commander model, hull value/liability limits), premium, and who our carrier is. Then get your quotes through a broker that deals with that carrier. Having at least some precedent you can keep them honest. The carrier that seems to like to insure Commanders the most is Old Republic.

Now that airplanes of all sorts (including Commanders) have experienced tremendous inflation over the past couple of years, many of us definitely find our hull value is now much less than the current value of the plane even though they are equivalent to the money we have paid in them. And inflation isn't finished, I mean the value will continue to climb increasingly higher with time IMO. I wish a retired super experienced insurance broker would give seminars at fly-ins on best insurance strategies.
 
I would like to continue the exploration of purchasing a Commander, however at this point I have not flown or seen a Commander in person. Is there a member around the Northeast Ohio area that would be willing to show their aircraft and perhaps provide me a flight? I would be willing to help with expenses. Thanks!
 
Is Dayton to far? Later this week?
 
buerlingp said:
I would like to continue the exploration of purchasing a Commander, however at this point I have not flown or seen a Commander in person. Is there a member around the Northeast Ohio area that would be willing to show their aircraft and perhaps provide me a flight? I would be willing to help with expenses. Thanks!
Click to expand...

hi.

1) Where in NE Ohio - which airport specifically ?
2) The Commander Fly-in is this weekend (Fri, Sat) at Dayton - KMGY. There will be all different types there : 112 , 112A , 112B, 112TC, 114, 114A, 114B, 115, 115TC.

No better place to check them out and bum a ride ..
 
alim said:
hi.

1) Where in NE Ohio - which airport specifically ?
2) The Commander Fly-in is this weekend (Fri, Sat) at Dayton - KMGY. There will be all different types there : 112 , 112A , 112B, 112TC, 114, 114A, 114B, 115, 115TC.

No better place to check them out and bum a ride ..
Click to expand...

I am assuming this event was this past weekend (9/23- 9/24). It would have been a great opportunity. Unfortunately I was not in Ohio this past weekend. Just as an FYI I am near KAKR and KCAK.
 
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