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Roush Wreck

Re: Roush Wreck

I've been watching this thead for several weeks. I don't have any first hand knowledge or information about this accident and only know of it through this forum. I have never heard Mr. Roush's name outside of this thread. But, it seems to be a hot topic...

So, finally someone has posted several, seemingly sequential, photos of this event, which make me think of a classic lapse of concentration/distraction/fixated on landing accident. The sequence of photos seem to show an aircraft which is very high on approach, probably S-turning to lose altitude, and probably achieved an extremely high rate of descent. When you finally realize that you need to break the descent and those turbine engines fail to accelerate promptly, then you're done ... His vector off the runway heading at ground contact makes me think maybe he almost broke the descent before one wing stalled at very low altitude. A jet thats "easy to fly" might crash more readily than one that hard to fly!

Ok, I'm not an accident investigator! My analysis (guess) above has no factual basis... Why am I commenting? I have quite a few hours in a high traffic, high workload environment; have made many mistakes myself or have seen my partner make them, and luckily survived along with my passengers! The only point is: continue to learn from your mistakes and those of others and Don't Ever Do That Again!

No one likes to hear of or see an accident. Hopefully, we all get reflective of our own operations when we see any type of accident. Aviation is one of the few venues that allows you to learn from your, or others, mistakes! You can even confess your mistakes for the sake of others! I have a few friends who are doctors/surgeons who would love to see the medical industry have a NASA report system!

Pardon my rant... I'm glad these folks survived an accident, but don't think they are anything other than "lucky"... Made a big mistake and lived! Let's all be happy and learn something.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

Alan - a good point you allude to. It probably was fairly clear early on that the landing wasn't coming togehter well. That's a good time to decide to go around and straighten it all out.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

Certainly appears to be a classic example of "break the chain" concept. Of course, key is to recognize and break one of the early links and not the last one when it is too late to recover. That is one of the bigest risks for those of us with more hours of experience and perhaps a survived NDE or two... use that experience for early detection of a bad decision path and not to persuade ourselves that we are experienced enough to "fix it". Tricky business at times.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

Actually I believe I left one out. Critical moment...
 

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Re: Roush Wreck

wab003 said:
Certainly appears to be a classic example of "break the chain" concept. Of course, key is to recognize and break one of the early links and not the last one when it is too late to recover. That is one of the bigest risks for those of us with more hours of experience and perhaps a survived NDE or two... use that experience for early detection of a bad decision path and not to persuade ourselves that we are experienced enough to "fix it". Tricky business at times.
Click to expand...

Great text, I'll use it in my next flying club safety clinic-----!! (Wonder how much your going to charge me. I'll use the alias Birdstike Bill and then have to explain it.)
 
Re: Roush Wreck

I did read one account that made it sound like the controllers really screwed him up coming in for landing at Oshkosh and were complicent. I don't recall the details, but at the time I couldn not decided if it was legitimate or just another :Blame the FAA First campaign.
I willtry to find it.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

That reminds me of a sign on a former admin asst's desk,... "Your failure to plan does not necessarily constitute an emergency for me".

Very true and ATC sometimes botches a situation just as we do. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to recognize the situation, our personal/aircraft limitations and utter the magic word, "unable". Another opportunity to overcome ego interference.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

You know, one more thing w/ the last photograph I posted...

Look at that image and imagine that there wasn't a non-stabilized approach involved.

Now imagine a relatively stabilized approach on a breezy Spring or Fall afternoon and that sudden xwind gust just in the midst of flare. Do you go around or try to catch it?

Need to contemplate action to be taken before it happens and not just react. You're only a few inches of wing tip from a nasty arrival. Be careful out there.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

He was soooooo close to catching a wing and cart-wheeling in which case I am sure he and his passenger are both dead. He was either very luck or very good that he flattened it out. If I had to guess ... at that point ... I think he was very good.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

Just prior to the ground impact I don't see much aileron deflection to straighten things out. In many accidents with this type of photo secquence you can plainly see the controls at their full deflection. I agree with the previous posts, ATC can get you into a lot of trouble (Southwest at Burbank comes right to mind). We as pilots are spring loaded to get the job done no matter what they ask you. If your uncomfortable with something they ask, Just say Unable. The outcome would have been far more lethal if there had been a fire, He was darn lucky..
 
Re: Roush Wreck

Judge you seem to be judging photos for the wrong clue!

The Premier II that JR's flying (winglets + newer Williams FJ44 - 3000lb SL Thrust engine ) is like the Premier I - they have 2 segment trailing edge Fowler flaps to provide the high CL needed for reasonable stall speed with the 50ish lb/sq ft wing loading. So the ailerons are small - when the aileron deflection is past 10* up the spoiler on the down rolling wing comes out.

So let's look at the left wing and see what the aileron & spoiler on it is doing the right wing is the wrong clue.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

JBunn said:
Looks like Premiers aren't the only thing Rousch is wreaking these days.... What a Menace!!

http://www.themustangnews.com/content/2011/02/jack-roush-jr-crashes-at-daytona/
Click to expand...

First of all, this was JR in this crash. Secondly, it happened on a race track where you get what you get on a track with full knowledge that incidents happen. Lastly, he was racing and making a move to the front of the pack. Running hard is when things happen. I'm sure if he was content being in 5th place he would have finished just fine. No biggie.
 
Re: Roush Wreck

The point is both are good at wreaking expensive toys. You need to get out of that ice cave of yours and go flying... You're getting whiney :)
 
Re: Roush Wreck

JBunn said:
The point is both are good at wreaking expensive toys. You need to get out of that ice cave of yours and go flying... You're getting whiney :)
Click to expand...

Bunn :)
 
Re: Roush Wreck

Hey Commanders been a while since I posted, this is a good video of the crash with a slow motion version too, I didn't really see any aileron movement, nor any on the rudder which is more difficult to see and would have expected to see more inputs from the controls. Anyway looked more like the plane was flying Rousch than him flying the plane, not the un-stabilized approach in the beginning. I know he had words with ATC and was doubtful early on and should have gone missed in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOLsZaVtd38
 
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