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North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Halidej

Halidej

New member
West Jordan, UT
Aircraft Type
Other
Hello from the Green Bay area,
With 125hrs in my logbook but many more hrs than that spent drooling over internet aircraft photos and spec's -- dreaming about every make and model imaginable, it seems -- I've finally come to my senses and joined COG in order to focus my attention on the Commander. The 112B and the 114 seem about right for my needs, so my initial searches of the forum threads will be to research pros and cons of the 112B vs the 114. I've read the FAQs and considered the spec's, but with only 125hrs I'm missing the practical cross-country experience for this sort of decision making. Maybe you've owned both? If so, I'll look forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards,
Jerry
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Welcome Jerry.

Just curious - what are the criteria that are causing you to focus on the 112B and 114 at this point? The more the members know about that the better their input to you will be.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Gmores,
I'm drawn to the 114 for its useful load, but I don't know that I'll need it. Although my wife and I together wouldn't tip the scales beyond 300lbs, we do believe our teenagers will occassionally want to travel with us. Having so little long-trip experience, I'm unsure how restrictive the 112s pax carrying limits would be for us. Further, if it's just Christine and I most of the time, then why burn the additional fuel of the 114 (we're not speed demons)? As for my 112 thinking, I'd look for a "B" with an engine in mid- to late-life that would give me the chance to put a few hundred hours on it before deciding how much to do at the overhaul (a Hot Shot, perhaps?). I think a useful exercise would be to do a detailed W/B for the 112/A/B using my family's actual numbers; and see where it comes out.
Halidej
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Halidej said:
Further, if it's just Christine and I most of the time, then why burn the additional fuel of the 114 (we're not speed demons)?
Click to expand...

Speaking from experience, you can lean a 114 way back and keep pace with any 112A/B. Or you can pass them. :)

The spread isn't too far between them, in cruise. I routinely fly around 12-13gph with wide-open throttle in my 114, and I need around 10gph and much reduced throttle to match the speed of a 112. I have leaned the 114 down to 9gph (with Gami injectors) and it doesn't seem to mind at all.

If you compare fuel consumption of the 112 .vs. 114 for, say, a 400nm trip distance then you'd see there's not much additional fuel being used by the 114. The 114 will arrive about 20 minutes sooner and use maybe 4 gallons more fuel.

It sounds like you need to focus more on useful load, if the teenagers and their bags are going to be flying with you. The 114 can carry 200 - 400 pounds more weight than the 112A/B.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

My pax loading sounds pretty similar... my wife and I would run about 330 (not saying whose fault that is!), but I did want a plane that would take the kids along too. We've all made a couple trips to Indiana together. My son is 16, and nearly as tall as me (haven't checked in a few days...), daughter is 14 and maybe 90 lbs soaking wet. But the 4 of us and bags for Thanksgiving, plus the ham my wife volunteered to bring (seriously? :eek: ) take us up close to max pretty quickly. Have you seen how much stuff 2 women can take! :) It would get difficult if your family XCs required less than full tanks and the reduced range that gives you.

On the fuel, you can pull the 114 back to same fuel flow as a 112... especially at LOP, the same FF results in the same horsepower for either engine.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Jerry,

You'll find plenty of good information and lots of advice here.

Sounds like you are doing your due diligence. If I had the extra money, the 114 would have been a consideration, and for future planning I think the 114 gives you a few more upgrade uptions that the 112's might leave out.

That said, I am very happy with 1247J, and she works out just fine for my needs. With Kathy and I we are right around 330 (mostly all my fault) We can load up for a trip and fill the tanks just fine. For you to make that same trip with 4 on board, you'd be able to unload some fuel (flying range more like a Cherokee) and likely need to eliminate the baggage (watch your weight and balance on this flight)
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Hi Jerry.
Having owned 13+ airplanes in the last 25 years I found the 112TC to be the commander of choice for us. We see density altitudes of 6000 ft here quite often. Up high the TO-360 makes more power than the 540 will.

Don't put a lot of stock in the kids traveling with you, we had a Baron once and my dog had way more hrs in it than the kids.

Buy what you can afford to fly the crap out of. I see so many people over buying airplanes then they become mantel pieces. Having teenage kids these days almost always takes money away from the plane fund.

Floyd
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Good to see someone from Wisconsin. You are definitely under-represented in COG. I have always loved the Packers, too.

The prices on the 114's now are such that I would go that direction if you can. More load, more speed, better climb ... and as described by others, you can fly it as economically as the 112 when you want. The deals out there are outrageous. Call Judi Anderson.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Hi Jerry,

I'm a brand new member here but I've been involved with a 114 for about ten years. I like the 114...right up to about 10,000 feet.

I've been thinking like you that a 112B would be fun...with the HotSHot conversion.

I miss using the "upper half" of the atmosphere as I did with our turbo-charged twin.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Jerry, My parents live in Marinette! I fly up there a few times a year! I would love to move up there, but the wife doesn't like the cold...I can honestly say you picked a great aircraft to set your sites on! I love my Commander. Maybe next time I'm up in the area, we could get together and talk airplanes...I give alot of rides when I go up that way...All the relatives want to go flying!
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Thank you all for the warm welcome.
Here's my summary of your words of wisdom:

"..down to 9gph (with GAMI's).." (FS)
...at LOP, the same FF = same HP.. (davloose)
"..likely need to eliminate the baggage.." (Dave)
"..my dog had way more hrs..," and
"Buy what you can fly the crap out of." (CFCS)
"..the prices on 114's now...Call Judi." (43W)
..parents live in MNM (cactusair)

I'm enjoying the learning immensely, and am leaning more toward the 114's now. Called Judi. Called some of you. Looking forward to meeting Thomas the next time he visits KMNM. Need to put my wife in the front seat of one of these pretty birds and see her smile.

Be good to yourselves,
Jerry
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

With all the finicial news telling us how bad the economy is, good to see there are still people looking. Good for you Jerry and good luck! One curious question, have you gotten an insurance quote for a 114?
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

nmontgomery said:
With all the finicial news telling us how bad the economy is, good to see there are still people looking. Good for you Jerry and good luck! One curious question, have you gotten an insurance quote for a 114?
Click to expand...

Nope.. I've only estimated $2500, for now.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

2500 is probably the most you will pay at today's prices ... depending on your hours, and how many DUI's you have. Could be even below $2,000. email me when you get a chance. scott@truen.com I may be going to Madison and Milwaukee soon and have a cousin north of you I'd like to see. Might be able to stop by and give you and the Ms a ride up and back the Door Peninsula, one of my favorite places. That would sell any spouse.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Hi Jerry, @ your experience level, $2,500. is a good estimate for a 114, but most based on hull value.
I'll resend you Mike Strombeck's contact info. he's written 90%+ of all my Commander Ins. for last 20 yrs., guarantee you'll get the best premiums.

Judi
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

The insurance quote came back at $3300, which I understand is heavily influenced by my low hours, lack of IFR, being under 250 total PIC, and so on. I needed a budgetary quotation, and that's what I got. So what I think I'll do is find someplace to build hours, finish the IFR, and get some complex high performance time.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Halidej said:
The insurance quote came back at $3300, which I understand is heavily influenced by my low hours, lack of IFR, being under 250 total PIC, and so on.
Click to expand...

Yeowza, how times have changed. When I bought my 114 in 2006 I was in a similar position: under 100 hours PIC, a smidge over 200 hrs total, no IFR, no high performance, and a handful of complex hours. My first year's insurance was under $2600, via AOPA.

Finding a complex, high performance airplane for rent may be difficult. I managed to get into a 172RG, and had 16 hours of complex, low performance time. The high performance endorsement was trivial once I had bought the airplane.
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Just finish the IFR, that's the heaviest hitter in all of those. My first year of insurance was $1747 (thru Judi's guy, btw...). I had 205 hours, and no retract time, BUT I had my IFR rating. Of course, had to get 10 hours dual in the plane (SOP), and was good to go. (I think that's for about 90K hull value).
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Don't under insure on the hull value, period....
 
Re: North East Wisconsin NEW-bie

Halidej said:
The insurance quote came back at $3300, which I understand is heavily influenced by my low hours, lack of IFR, being under 250 total PIC, and so on. I needed a budgetary quotation, and that's what I got. So what I think I'll do is find someplace to build hours, finish the IFR, and get some complex high performance time.
Click to expand...

I'd also make sure you are getting a qoute based on 20 hours of Complex time, or time in type.

Then go out and get that complex time, (in type - if possible) prior to your purchase. If I remember with my quotes, 20 hours was the qualifier for the beginning of lower rates. Before that, you were at the highest risk level.
 
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