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New York SFRA

A

AVIATOR.CYFD

New member
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Other
Good morning COG.

I'm looking for suggestions for a planned trip early next year in the spring for a trip from Toronto Area to New York City.

Essentially what I would like to do is fly to an airport near New York City preferably a smaller well service field with a hotel very near the field on the outskirts of the Class B. Just looking for some suggestions as to a Day 1 destination field that is friendly and cost effective. Day 1 plan to fly there, Day 2 local area flight including the NY Hudson and East River SFRA's. Day 3 flight home. I'm coming from Canada so will do a customs pit stop in KBUF and then onwards to NYC area.

I will have my wife and a couple of young kids (8/6) so the other thing on my wish list is the field I would head to for the NY base couple of days would be even better if the was a couple of nice restaurants, something nearby for the kids to visit when were not flying!

I just did the FAA NY SFRA online course. The flight requirements look very straight forward and it seems to be an interesting flight! Circling the statue of liberty!!! Nice flight for the log book!

Anyways, Any suggestions from those who know, or have visited the area, for the US destination field would be gratefully received. I was thinking maybe Westchester County (KHPN) ?

Any other comments or tips from those who have done the NY SFRA flight would also be gratefully received!

Cheers, Rod.
 
Re: New York SFRA

Convenient fields will be under the 3K Class B cake. Getting in and out is cake.

Flying in :
I suggest considering KCDW or KTEB.

KTEB will be REALLY convenient. $20 Uber to places where you may want to stay - balance that with the overnight fees. Getting in is no issue. Getting out IFR is a pain. VFR should be fine. Mostly jet traffic but I learnt how to fly at this field among the big boys in the early 90s.

KCDW convenient as well but about a $40 uber to places where you may want to stay. - Mostly prop / trainer traffic.

Hotels : Consider the Sheraton in Weehawken, NJ. Or a hotel in Hoboken, NJ (I like the W there). You can easily ferry across to NYC - which itself is a treat. Sheraton has ferry at the door. The W has a ferry within a 5 minute walk. Hotels are much cheaper on the NJ side than in NYC. You can find a closet in NYC for the same prices.

Restaurants - its NYC. yelp is your friend. If you need guidance off the tourist route - give me a sense of palette and happy to send you options. Wife is a foodie.


NY SFRA - instead of doing the Hudson below 1100 feet in the corridor - if you take off - ask NYC ATC for a Class B transition at 2000 feet above the corridor. While its fun flying low - the view from 2K is better IMHO. Also keeps you above all the VFRs at 1100 feet or below.

You can ask for a flight down the river , over GW bridge, next to the city toward governors island, up east river, cross over OVER Central Park going back west at 2K and thats a good day ....


ps. You CAN stay further away and use those airports as well but if you're coming to NY - then stay in/close to NY and enjoy the day. Staying in the outskirts , you risk having a ho hum stay area for kids and "ok" restaurants. Staying in HPN - you'll be using/staying in super suburbia.
 
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Re: New York SFRA

Moazzam,

Thanks for the great advice and insight... I will look in detail at your suggestions. I suspect your experience will be valuable as I had not considered the Surburbia aspect! excellent suggestions all around!

Rod.
 
Re: New York SFRA

Btw - my mom's place overlooks the NY Hudson River corridor - here's a live view :) looking east
you can see the Sheraton and the Ferry Dock at 12'o clock on this side of the river.

Hoboken to the south and has multiple ferries going to mid-town.
Ferries go to 39th street and west side - right next to the intrepid aircraft carrier .. which is an easy 5 min walk on the NYC side .. you can just about make it out the the 10 o clock position (Concorde sitting there) next to the cruise ships.



 
Re: New York SFRA

The Daytime flight is very nice, and people with you will have a nice time. The night time flight will blow you and your Passengers minds, and will be a flight they will remember for the rest of their lives.
 
Re: New York SFRA

You're right about that Allen. A night flight down the river is spectacular. The only thing that comes close was the view from Windows on the World at the top of the Trade Center. Brings back lots of memories.
 
Re: New York SFRA

Thanks Allen... I'm really enjoying learning the requirements and the SFRAs... I love flight planning and getting ready for trips to places I've never been so this will be a real treat! Hopefully I can do a couple of flights over the course of the trip...maybe do the low level SFRAs during the day and perhaps the higher Class B transition in the evening?

Cheers, Rod.
 
Re: New York SFRA

AVIATOR.CYFD said:
Good morning COG.

I'm looking for suggestions for a planned trip early next year in the spring for a trip from Toronto Area to New York City.

Essentially what I would like to do is fly to an airport near New York City preferably a smaller well service field with a hotel very near the field on the outskirts of the Class B. Just looking for some suggestions as to a Day 1 destination field that is friendly and cost effective. Day 1 plan to fly there, Day 2 local area flight including the NY Hudson and East River SFRA's. Day 3 flight home. I'm coming from Canada so will do a customs pit stop in KBUF and then onwards to NYC area.

I will have my wife and a couple of young kids (8/6) so the other thing on my wish list is the field I would head to for the NY base couple of days would be even better if the was a couple of nice restaurants, something nearby for the kids to visit when were not flying!

I just did the FAA NY SFRA online course. The flight requirements look very straight forward and it seems to be an interesting flight! Circling the statue of liberty!!! Nice flight for the log book!

Anyways, Any suggestions from those who know, or have visited the area, for the US destination field would be gratefully received. I was thinking maybe Westchester County (KHPN) ?

Any other comments or tips from those who have done the NY SFRA flight would also be gratefully received!

Cheers, Rod.
Click to expand...

Hi Rod,
Sounds like a fun trip...just one thing, I've flown around the NY area for a lot of years, all in helicopters; be forewarned that the East River VFR exclusion dead ends at the north end just after Roosevelt Island...in a helicopter no big deal as you can just do a U-turn but in fixed wing you MUST contact LaGuardia Tower to continue transitioning northbound...Hudson River traffic is extremely busy at 900 feet as the tour helicopters are descending and climbing to that altitude...

any other questions don't hesitate to ask...have a fun flight!

John
 
Re: New York SFRA

That’s really good to know John. Thanks for the advice. I may reach out to you closer to with more specific questions if that’s ok? At present I’m just soaking in the charts and procedures so when I make a final plan I would love to run it by you before we push the throttles so to speak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: New York SFRA

AVIATOR.CYFD said:
That’s really good to know John. Thanks for the advice. I may reach out to you closer to with more specific questions if that’s ok? At present I’m just soaking in the charts and procedures so when I make a final plan I would love to run it by you before we push the throttles so to speak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No problem Rod, hit me up when you're ready.

John
 
Re: New York SFRA

You can do VFR corridor during the day.

Monitor 123.05
Enter southbound on the river (north of GW bridge). Descend below 1100' going southbound.
Go all the way to the statue - make position reports and listen to choppers. In order to do a circuit around it - you'll have to be below 500 feet. Climb back up. Go south bound to Verrazano bridge - do a 180 and go northbound up the river. If you're staying at KTEB, at the Empire State - you can transition back towards TEB at 1000 feet. Only be below 1000 on the river. the terrain rises fast on the west side.

John is right on that LOW VFR dead-end up the east river. Frankly I dont advise it without B clearance at 2K feet. Gets real tight up there if LGA bounces you. I wouldnt go up east river unless I was at 2K with B clearance. Ask for a central park transition back west at 2K.

Advise the controllers up front on your intentions. 99% of all traffic here talking to them is commercial landing LGA. They don't monitor the VFRs at 1000 or below. If you get B clearance - you'll get excellent handling.

For the night flight - do it at 2K with Bravo clearance. It is an AMAZING view.
This was my usual - someone's in town and want to experience NYC.

My best flight : Head south on the river at 1000 - down to the lady. Got B clearance up east river, over Central Park - back onto Hudson River going southbound. Towards the lady - then direct Newark - over the numbers at runway 22 on heading 290 at 1000' - direct KCDW.
 
Re: New York SFRA

Stuff ...

- Is it your plan to visit the City too, or just fly the corridor while you're in the neighborhood?

NY City has a lot of choices for extra-curricular activity, but it will use up full days. It's not really conducive (my opinion) to going to the airport to fly, then go into the City for a few hours, then going back to an outer area hotel for the night.

Given that you asked for activities near the airport for the kids, I get the sense that you're not really looking to head into the City for much at all. If that's the case, then I would suggest either HPN or FRG, rather than either CDW or TEB. Of the former two, I'm more familiar with FRG, which happens to offer all you've requested (hotel, kid stuff, Class B).

- What time of day are you planning to arrive/depart? The reason I ask is because you might be able to combine the river trips with your arrival and/or departure, which would give you more time on the ground to tour around.
 
Re: New York SFRA

Rod: If you do go up the East River, you'll need to talk to LGA Tower, you might want to ask for 1100 feet, that would be 200 feet above the choppers and should net even come close to interfering with the LGA traffic. If you do head up the east river, mind the winds. You should stay on the right side all the time, and with the prevailing winds normally from the west, when you get to the northern part of Roosevelt Island, you have to make a u turn. I slow to 100 knots and drop the flaps to 10, are at the extreme right side of the river (no farther) and use 30 degrees of bank. If the winds are severe from the east(say 25 knots or more, you will never be able to keep your ship over the river. In that case, Just before the u turn, I would transition quickly to the Left side of the river and turn into the wind in a Right turn. after the turn get back to the right side of the River heading south.Forgot the Name of the Baseball player and his instructor that Didn't do this and ran straight into a building on Manhatten. Then you'll get the Idiot Politicians clamoring for the closure of the entire Corridor. !0 or even 15 knots shouldn't be a factor....
 
Re: New York SFRA

atjudge said:
Rod: If you do go up the East River, you'll need to talk to LGA Tower, you might want to ask for 1100 feet, that would be 200 feet above the choppers and should net even come close to interfering with the LGA traffic. If you do head up the east river, mind the winds. You should stay on the right side all the time, and with the prevailing winds normally from the west, when you get to the northern part of Roosevelt Island, you have to make a u turn. I slow to 100 knots and drop the flaps to 10, are at the extreme right side of the river (no farther) and use 30 degrees of bank. If the winds are severe from the east(say 25 knots or more, you will never be able to keep your ship over the river. In that case, Just before the u turn, I would transition quickly to the Left side of the river and turn into the wind in a Right turn. after the turn get back to the right side of the River heading south.Forgot the Name of the Baseball player and his instructor that Didn't do this and ran straight into a building on Manhatten. Then you'll get the Idiot Politicians clamoring for the closure of the entire Corridor. !0 or even 15 knots shouldn't be a factor....
Click to expand...


No, No, No!...you fly the rivers like you drive, on the right...you can't decide on your own to fly to the left side to make a U-turn to go back south, then you're flying on the wrong side for southbound flight...East river is NOT for fixed wing who think they MIGHT be able to make a U-turn...if you have to fly the East river, you had better have a clearance from LaGuardia prior to heading north otherwise you're setting yourself for an airspace bust or worse...

John
 
Re: New York SFRA

exactly what I just said, but you stray over Manhatten because the wind pushed you there you're looking straight at buildings directly in front of you, and you are officially out of the corridor
 
Re: New York SFRA

I will be doing the corridor in the spring. Will do the Hudson northbound then make a right turn to FRG. Won't consider going up the East river.
Took the course - looks pretty easy!
 
Re: New York SFRA

I can also recommend FRG. Simple in and out. Nice folks there (especially Frank. ��). You’ll still want to be on your A-game to fly NY airspace and while TEB is close to the downtown action, it is one (if not THE) busiest GA airports in the country with many corporate/personal turbine rides zooming in and out. Not a place where you want to ask to be let into the conga line tooling along at a 90-100 kt approach speed.
 
Re: New York SFRA

I second stay away from Teterboro (TEB) and used to go there a lot but controllers are the most rude you will ever meet even when you do everything entering or leaving there airspace perfect are GA un-friendly in my opinion. They are always busy and its the preferred ap for all the corporate jets coming in and out of NY, and have an above average accident rate over the years.

I prefer HPN and FRG and both close enough to the city and each has great service with the transit system and both ap are very nice versus TEB.
 
Re: New York SFRA

I learnt how to fly here (at TEB) - so perhaps I am just used to them.
I don't find the controllers any different than the usual NY.

You want rude ? Fly into Miami international :)

I wouldn't use TEB airport for daytime practice approaches - but if you're an arrival or a departure - just avoid rush hour (mornings and afternoons) where you have an arrival or departure every couple of mins. After 10 am or so - arrivals/departures then have 20 min intervals. Mid-day - traffic is no different than anywhere else and 2 runways help a lot.

I think the biggest case against using TEB is the fuel cost. I know KCDW best - hence I recommend it.

KHPN or KFRG probably equally ok.

But lets separate which airport from where a family should stay.

I still recommend staying close to the city if you want to make a trip out of it.
Intrepid museum w. the space shuttle / Concorde + SR71 is a must do.

Per Frank's suggestion - carve out a NYC sightseeing flight day / evening.
 
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