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New member - looking at buying a Commander 114

V

VC137FE

New member
Good afternoon!

So glad I found this forum. I'm currently looking at purchasing a 114. I'm a private pilot SEL / MEL / Instrument with a little over 200 hours working on my commercial. I have zero time in a Commander and I've contacted a couple of insurance company's and they decline to provide a quote. Just looking at what my ownership costs will be... Is there a minimum I'm not seeing when it comes to flight hours?

Thanks!
 
VC137FE, I started out as you did with 0 hours in the Commander and 140 hours of total time with only a PPL a few years ago and my insurance started at $1,300 annually. The insurance had a 25 hour dual instruction requirement in the aircraft (of course I purchased the aircraft and got my 25 hours in my aircraft with an instructor who was qualified in the AC11 as well, that is acceptable to most insurances). That was in October 2017. Today I am paying $1,503 annually for $100K haul value and I have over 800 hours in the commander now with commercial certificate and instrument add on.

As for the annual cost, depending on the amount you borrow and where you hanger your new mistress, here is a my break down of ownership cost:

Monthly Plane Payment (unless you pay outright): $500.00 (depends on interest rate and amount borrowed)
hanger Rent: $250.00 (hanger rent varies on where you are)
Insurance: $126.00 (this is normally paid in a lump sum once a year)

Total monthly out of pocket expense (no fuel or maintenance): $876.00

I normally put back $35.00 for every hour I fly for maintenance and engine repairs.

This is all going to vary depending on your situation, but these are real numbers from my experience. I can tell you that I have sunk over $67K in the plane since October 2017 in a top engine overhaul, new JPI, new interior, new hydraulic power pack, new Aspen, auto pilot rebuild, and tons of other misc. components for my engine.

Every penny has been worth it that I have spent on the plane. The plane is a very comfortable platform for cross country's and I have even tried making my self sell it and upgrade to a twin but my family say's no, they enjoy the Commander to much. Hope this helps and hope you find a Commander to enjoy.

Sean
 
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Welcome Kevin
You certainly have worked on some ratings in a short span of hours!
Great way to do it.
My experience 2 years ago was from a perspective of being 350 hour TT SEL , NON Instrument rated but High Performance, Complex and Retractable hours.
In particular my company wanted to see 75 to 100 hours of "Retract" time as a minimum.
My initial coverage required 5 hours of Dual Instruction from someone with at least 50 hours Commander time or a CFI of my choice to be signed off in my airplane then 5 add'l solo hours before carrying any passengers.
My CFI was signed off after a check ride and I completed my 5 hours with him locally.
I still pay a "Premium" premium but I enjoy ownership and consider it just another part of the journey.
If you would please go ahead and complete a Tag Line so the group knows where you are based.
There may be someone near you that can help in that regard.
Best, Bill
 
You are on the right track - get your IR and Commercial certificate to help minimize what will still be a large premium for a low time pilot.

My 23 year old son is PPL, MEL, IR, Commercial and has type ratings in a TBM 700/850, PA46, and soon King Air type rating through SimCom. 600 hours total. And I still don't have him insured in my Commander because of the outrageous premium they want. I am, however, in the middle of getting another quote since he just got back from SimCom with a certificate for the TBM. Maybe it will be better.

Part of the problem may be his age.

Anyway - you are doing it the right way with getting the ratings / certificates as quickly as you can.

Also - you are looking at the right plane too. Get with Judi Anderson at Sun Coast Aviation to help you find one.

Good luck! I think it is alot of fun shopping for airplanes!
 
So……you were/are a flight engineer on VC137’s? If so, I bet you have a few stories to share. :)
 
VC137FE said:
Good afternoon!

So glad I found this forum. I'm currently looking at purchasing a 114. I'm a private pilot SEL / MEL / Instrument with a little over 200 hours working on my commercial. I have zero time in a Commander and I've contacted a couple of insurance company's and they decline to provide a quote. Just looking at what my ownership costs will be... Is there a minimum I'm not seeing when it comes to flight hours?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I got my AC11 with 300 hours total time in 2000. SEL/Instrument is all i had back then. USAIG covered with a 2-5 hour checkout (not the 25 hours other new members are encountering) - i proceeded to add Commercial and MEL 2 yrs later and now have more than 1000 hours in the commander on top of the 300 i originally had.
Insurance was ~$1900 in 2000 and came down to $1700 2 yrs later. It has stayed there for 20 yrs until last yr when it went to ~$2500 - the first premium increase in 20+ yrs.
My covered hull value is $140K (avionics upgrades, etc driving the new hull/ replacement value , driving the majority of the premium).

Insurance declining to give u a quote seems more type (AC11) based rather than you. I use USAIG. Members here can point you to companies that do cover the commander. With your experience - it seems only slightly lower than what i had.
 
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Kevin, for the past say three years (at least in our experience) insurance rates are climbing at like $ 1,000/year so as mentioned it may be the type more than your age/hours. The industry was under insuring hulls for years with low prices and then too many were plonking their airplanes into the ground and collecting. We have three very experienced partners on the plane and this last renewal, 3 out of 5 insurers declined to quote and we have zero claims in 9 years of operation. My general feeling is that the underwriters really want to back out of the GA business as everything is aging ( our Commander just turned 50 ! ) and costs for everything are stupid right now.
 
That makes sense to me. It makes me wonder how GA will survive if insurance companies stop providing policies or price them out of most's pocketbooks. There might be the potential of more and more aircraft rotting on airfields due to no insurance. I can understand quoting me a high premium but to not even provide one is frustrating.
 
I have seen about a 15 percent increase in rates each year for the past three. One of my aircraft is almost 80 years old and another is over 70 and that hasn’t seemed to make a difference. I’m told by my broker that they are starting to see things stabilize in the industry.

Don
 
It just might come down to people self insuring. You have to be able to stomach the various kind of losses you could incur however. That will make the price of planes come down also because banks won’t finance planes without insurance so it reduces the number of potential buyers. A rule of thumb in the past is 20 years of premiums equals cost of the plane. Man that doesn’t even make sense with today’s prices. Yep these are stupid crazy times.
 
I got my Commander lsat year as a SEL / SES, no IFR, ~200 hours, zero Commander time. I went through Air Pros (Victoria Neuville) as a broker, and Harco was one of two that quoted -- forget who the other was, Harco had the better rate. Not cheap (need to finish my IFR!), but possible. The one other thing that might be a factor is age?
 
Hey Guys,

Hope everything is going well and everyone is healthy. I just joined and am in the process of purchasing a Hanger find and will be looking to all of you for your guidance. It's a 114TC with the IO-580 upgrade (Non Turbo).
In the meantime I will have to get some transition training in the D/FW area. Does anyone have any suggestions as to who to turn to for this? I have around 350 hours with approximately 200 hours in high performance but no retract time. Spoke to insurance company and they are going to want around $5000 annually.
 
Try Jerry Lunsford at Plane Texans, Inc. He is out of Arlington but goes everywhere in the metroplex. He is who I use for my biannual.

jerry@planetexans.com
 
And we hv Paul Davis in FtWorth. Former 112HS owner. CFI-II. 1000s of hrs in all AC11s.
I'll send you his contact.

Judi
 
Robert Garza out of Tyler did my transition training. PM me if you want his contact information.
 
Richard Klein is also in the DFW area and did a great job for me a while back. 214-704-2054

Dean
 
VC137FE said:
Yes I do! Started my USAF career on C-141b’s then the last ten years were at Andrews on the 707. Best damn Enlisted job there was!
Click to expand...

Hey fellow 707 Eng!

Welcome to the club. My experience is very similar to every one else here, so I mainly wanted to chime in on the FE thing.

Alex
 
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