New Member / Future Owner

[dbjax]

Greetings all –

I’m Dave in Jacksonville, FL and have been reading posts here for about a month now. Thanks for having such a supportive and informative community. I can tell that you all truly are interested in preserving the future of the Commanders as a viable platform. Obviously, I’m here for the advice (I’m sure none of you are biased).

About me:
Retired from the Navy (Submarines) in 2019 and finished my PPL in Sept 2019. Currently working towards my Instrument rating (just over 100 hours total) and about to transition to a PA-28 Arrow II to get some retract and complex time (part of a flying club). While being part of a club is great for some aspects, flexibility is not one of them as the planes stay busy.

My mission:
The thought is to buy for the primary mission and rent for the extended needs. Being in the southeast, there are plenty of airports and hamburgers within 300 or so miles. Primarily it will be me and my wife and some overnight bags, but occasionally our teenage son and maybe our 20-something daughter might join us. Eventually, the two of us want to travel around the country and experience more than here in the south, but that would just be us.

So my thoughts are that a 112A would be sufficient to meet the mission, but I wonder if a 114 would be a better choice. Turbo probably is overkill, but I’m not averse to that option. I’d like to get something around the holiday timeframe, but am willing to wait for the right one to come along. I know that Judi is the “Keeper of the Commanders” so I’ll be planning on reaching out to her soon.

So, I’d appreciate any advice from the experts here. This would be my first (and hopefully last) plane, so I’m trying to make the right move.

• How impactful is damage history (assuming it’s been repaired)?
• Extending time beyond TBO?
• Most listings I’ve seen show a relatively low total time, is there an airframe limit on some of the earlier models?
• Anyone on the board around the Jacksonville area and willing to show yours off?
• What do you wish you’d known before you purchased your first plane?

So thanks again for your input and community. I look forward to integrating with you and bringing home one of these beautiful birds.

 

[mrcshbs]

​​​​​Dave, welcome to the commander family. I must say once you fly the commander you ain't never going back to any other single. Well at least not without any regrets. The commanders do set the bar high I am afraid.

Here are my my 2 cents:

How impactful is damage history (assuming it’s been repaired)?
I personally don't see any issues if it's documented and repaired correctly. That's a whole different conversation, but some (including myself) may argue that will cause the value to go down. I think any airplane hold a higher value with no damage history, but it would not hinder me from buying a commander with damage history.


Extending time beyond TBO?
If the engine is running descent/smooth, no signs of problems and safely, I would personally run it beyond the TBO without any problems. At some point though overhaul will need to happen. Just keep that in mind.


Most listings I’ve seen show a relatively low total time, is there an airframe limit on some of the earlier models?
Judy can probably answer that better than anyone. I think there is a 5K or 6K hour limit on the earlier models. If you fly 50(ish) hours a year, that would put you at 500 hours every 10 years. That's my number of hours, so I will be long gone before that wing runs out of time.


Anyone on the board around the Jacksonville area and willing to show yours off?
Sorry, I am in Missouri.


What do you wish you’d known before you purchased your first plane?
I wish I knew airplanes were pretty expensive before buying mine. I also didn't realized that a high performance retractable single insurance rate are much higher than a piper warrior, by a long shot!!

Those are my 2 cents.

Anyways, welcome.

 

[gmores]

Dave - wing life limits and other useful data is in our Commander FAQ. 6,945 hours for the 112. You'll generally find low to moderate hours on Commanders as few have been trainers or in rental fleets.

Marcos gave good answers to your questions - the last is hardest as what we all wish we knew we learned by experience. I knew almost nothing when I got my Commander and have spent the last 20 years getting an education. Your spending time here and talking with Judi is worthwhile.

Good luck with your search.

 

[KikoandPat]

Hello Dave,

Good luck on your search ! I am happy to share my opinion of your questions.
1. Damage History - it really depends on the level of damage. I would not worry about parts that had been replaced. Parts that had been repaired should be looked at more closely especially if the fix cannot be visually inspected. Events such a prop strikes and gear ups should not be an issue as long as their was no damage to the structure. Folks like to use damage history as an opportunity to get a better deal and if you do get a better deal because of it, I would look at it very skeptically.
2. TBO is the manufacturer's recommendation. If an engine has been well maintained, well run, regular oil changes, regular bore scopes, I have heard of Lycoming engines going 2X over the recommended TBO (regularly 1K over the TBO). If you are contemplating an aircraft with an engine close to or over the TBO and your plan is to continue to run it, gather all the maintenance data you can get and have it analyzed by an expert. If you personally know the maintenance history of the engine and you are comfortable with it, I would do it BUT, you need to know it maintenance history before making the decision. Lycoming under certain circumstances can even extend their recommended TBO by 400 hours.
3. The aircraft have Wing life limits - here is the link to the info and more - http://www.commander.org/Bergcom/Tec...mander-FAQ.pdf
4. I live in Melbourne FL (KMLB) and have a 76' 114. If you can make it down this way, I'd be happy to show it to you.
5. Make sure you fully understand what is going to be looked at during a pre-buy inspection. Make sure ALL the serial number specific Air Worthiness Directives are listed with their completion dates and reoccurring inspection requirements. It would be nice to know the Service Bulletin / Letter status but, that can be asking too much. lastly, independently verify and research the damage history of the aircraft including accidents and incidents. They may not be significant or relevant but you should know all of them.

Gook Luck.... Kiko

 

[rwelsh]

Dave: call Judi sooner rather than late!
I also sent you a private message, I can show you my 114 close by

 

[wiguy]

Always a lot of variables. Say you have a 200 engine but long sits over a 10 year period? I looked at a plane once, 1500 TT over 30 years. The seller was saying it was a plus, cuz nobody opened up & screwed with the factory engine.

Once you start going back a bunch, in hours or years, I’d rather have an overhaul priced in then start fresh.

 

[Jamesdub]

Evening Dave,

We've got in-law family in Middleburg and use Keystone as our link-up field. Unfortunately I'm on a 150nm radius lockdown per COVIG (Army employer directive) and JAX is just a bit over that.

Lessons learned; Don't forget the tax man! Just when you get all the finances in order here he comes. Some states hit you with a 'use tax' (sales) and when you get settled some states levy an annual 'property tax'. Mines about $600 per year.

Pre-Buy, necessary evil but dependent on the plane and its usage (currently flying vice sitting) you might consider the detail of the inspection.
Buying a 1995 114 TC, I'd want the ultimate inspection. Something in the $50 - $70K maybe a little less?? Financing may require a pre-buy.
Pre-buys are an inspection!!! Don't expect the shop to 'fix' anything - that will come later $$.

Total airframe Time, most commanders are semi-low time and few have been used as trainers. My 78 is just hitting 2K total

Instrument platform; VERY satisfied with the AC11 in the soup. However; you will need a current/modern equipped panel to make it safe and enjoyable. If your purchase plane needs avionics plan on some big $$ not only for the radio, but also for the installation. I plan on about 50% of the radio cost for its installation.

Annuals, Generally speaking AC11's fair well. Think the average cost is about $1500 - $2000. Can be cheaper with owner's assist.

Parts, Coming up on 10 yrs ownership and have NEVER had a problem with parts.

Comfort, Can't be beat, two doors and a VERY Roomy interior make it a winner.

Ramp Appeal, Seriously, it is very rare that I don't receive a comment on what a sharp looking plane the AC11 is.

Fuel, my 114 (running same area as you - low flat lands) generally burns 12.5 gal per hour. (my sweet spot is 6-8K (145 - 149 TAS) but she'll go higher).
I'd imagine the 112's get in the 9 - 10 gals (help me out 112 drivers) and the 114 TC, maybe in the 15-16 gal's (est??)

Insurance, crap shoot year to year, Some years they like us(AC11s) others not so much. But never a really big swing. Mine is $1600 standard coverage (5K+ total, comm Inst)

Would I do it again? Absolutely!! Have to pinch myself on each flight

Keep the questions coming and Welcome!
John

 

[dbjax]

Thank you all for your kind words and advice. As advised, I am in touch with Judi and hope to make myself a new owner in the near future.

Should that happen, I have no doubt I'll be asking a ton of questions.

All the best,
Dave