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New member...and looking for some advice

R

RobertTrask

New member
Thank you for reading my first message! I am about halfway through my PPL. I will roll straight to my instrument training once I have my ticket, so I will have all of the required time in type training for insurance.

I am 6'5" tall, GA aircraft have been challenging. I am looking at a Cirrus and 182 currently. I have read just about every "tall pilot" post in multiple forums and ran across mention of a Commander having a usable large cockpit and yet remains a 4 seat single. A 4 seat single that I can be comfortable in with a rear seat usable for medium-size adults is like trying to find a purple unicorn in the dark.

My apologies, but I know very little about the brand and aircraft. Is a Commander a likely good fit for me? Maintenance costs are obviously a concern. I am based out of KSUS in St. Louis MO, USA. Thanks in advance for any advice that can be given.

Robert
 
Robert T
Get a ride in a Commander 114 at first opportunity. See if it fits, most often it does for tall people. There are members in your area who might step forward to help you get a ride. Getting complex hours will be costly, big impact on insurance cost. Geta handle on this before you get too excited about a 114.
John P (painlesspotter)
 
Robert,

Welcome to the group!

I'm not sure what your typical mission is, so you may want to define that to get a more concise answers. There will be more experienced owners along to fill in the details for each specific model. I fly a 112A and it's just me and my bride so the useful load works for us. The Commanders are very roomy, along the lines of riding in a SUV. We put a high value on the two doors and comfort.
 
But do set a price limit - comfortable & stretch (see where you can get bargains and where you can't).


Acquisition - Financed or cash ( Bargains can be had here)

OPEX (No Bargains here)
- Fixed Costs ( hangar ; insurance , etc)
-Annual Mx
- Wear & Tear Mx

Upgrades Required (Definitely no bargains here)
- if any. e.g. some folks don't want to fly with an approach certified GPS, etc.
 
Robert,

Welcome to the group. The Commander has a nice sized cabin for sure. Last weekend, I had myself (6'1 170) front right (5' 10-ish 180), back left seat 6'2 180 and back right seat 4' and 72 pounds - with full fuel. Operating out of 5,000 and 6,000' field elevations and higher density altitudes. We used a lot of runway, but, operated safely and comfortably.

I agree with the prior posts - refine your mission and go see/sit and maybe fly in a Commander before you get too far down the road.

Dean
 
Robert,
Welcome. As a fig guy 6’6” 290 lbs I can safely say the Commander 112/114 is a very roomy plane. Dean has actually flown with me in my plane while he was in TN to pick up his plane and we were quite comfortable. As above define your mission. Really think objectively. I’m my case I could see all the possibilities of family and friends flying along, but in my case reality is 90% of the time I am flying alone. 10% is usually 1 passenger (wife). On one occasion I flew 3 adults and with reducing fuel on board I had no problem in my 112A, but that would be a problem in higher altitude airports like in Colorado. Flying with 2 is not a problem at all. I have flown several times over the Rockies to Salem Or and loved the trip. I do pick the lower altitude mountains to fly over. Which ever one you decide the Commander is a nice plane to fly and an eye catcher on the ground.
 
New pilot, low time, and not IFR yet, I would buy something along the lines of a 172 / PA-28 until you get a couple hundred hours in at least. You will find that insurance for any "complex" airplane is going to be outrageous for a low time pilot as yourself. Plus, you need to get some exposure to as many airplanes as you possibly can before you actually purchase one that you intend to fly for many years.

Still, if you are intent on making that purchase NOW, the 182 is a better choice for low time pilots with no complex experience who want a "big" airplane. They are expensive (popular) but there is a reason for that.

The 114 would be a close second. Just remember, with more time and hours, the 114 is the best choice by far!

Good luck and have fun!
 
I had ~300 hours before i bought my Rockwell.

~100 hours in a PA28 - Archer - Primary training
~60 hours in a PA - Arrow - Complex - Hi - Performance time was built here.
~150 hours across about 10 different types - PA 32 Saratoga ; Cessna T210; Cessna 172 ; Cessna 172 RG , etc etc. - and some composite family like DIamonds.

I concluded i really want an F33 Bonanza or P32 Saratoga but couldn't afford either.
Then i discovered the Rockwell. It fit the mission profile and fit the wallet. I've held on to it for 20 yrs now with no plans of selling.

With 300 hours Total time, an instrument rating and ~100 hours of Complex/Hi-Performance - i had no issues getting insurance at a reasonable rate - around $2200 or so and required a < 2 hour aircraft transition by USAIG with this experience.

I then proceeded to get my Commercial rating in the Commander. I flew the Commander to the airport where i stayed while getting my Multi-Engine in a Seneca.

If you try and get into the Rockwell as an early pilot - you will find yourself being a Complex aircraft owner, an Mx troubleshooter while learning to fly and building time - which some have done but i think your early hours should be spent flying , not learning how to nurse birds. Once you 're comfortable in airplanes and have done many $100 hamburgers in the odd 172s etc - you can now look at becoming an owner.

This is naturally not the only path. People have TRAINED in their Commanders. But insurance wont be kind to you. If you don't care about money and time - then go for it.
 
Good advice Moazzam. The only reason why I brought up insurance is the fact that I tried to get my son insured for my Commander last year. He is 22 years old, with 200+ hours, but no IFR rating (should be doing his check ride for that later this month) and the insurance premium was crazy high. So high that it was worth me owning a second airplane for my son to train in. Now part of the high cost may be because he is so young, but I don't think that is the complete explanation. If I remember correctly, the premium was going to be $8,000+ to add him to the approved list to fly it AFTER he received the endorsement. Compare that to $1,700 that I pay (and for a fairly high hull value) and I decided to keep my old, but trusty Sundowner for him to fly and get his IR.
 
Dang, I couldn't afford a plane if I had to buy one now they've gone up so much! And insurance premiums ride with the plane into the flight levels. :eek:

Robert if you want to buy a plane, I suggest you keep renting cheap 150 and 172s first till you get your ticket. Do your cross countrys to EAA breakfasts and other fly-ins nearby and find some old codger that's too old to fly but too stubborn to give up his plane that you like. There's lots of us--probably meet some on here. Tell him you need someone to fly dual with and buy 50% into his plane. You two going flying all the time and build time. Get him to Will the other half to you. ;)
 
The most important input in buying any plane is "What is your Mission" The second is not just your total hours but the level of training and the support for training after you buy the plane. The Commander stands better than the other single engine planes for comfort. And from many other pilots and instructors, control of flight.
Betty would not fly in the PA28 that I trained in. Too tight and she is not very big. She is a control person and visibility is a must including the back seat. She will only ride in the back if there is a "good" pilot in the right seat. Rt Seat is her call sign and license plate.
Training. I have seen many pilots that had random time available for training and poor multiple instructors. Then they got their license, it was there ticket to learn more and get comfortable flying. This is where the support training comes in and it can be from other pilots and even flying with others.
I learned to fly in the Banning Pass, California. The PA28 was a good trainer but it did not have the performance I needed for the mountains. And Comfort
I bought my Commander 114 and only had 50 hours total. My instructor, retired Airforce supported my decision and I got my first 10 hours with him. Gas was cheap in 1990 and I was fortunate to hangar close to Bob Hanson (114) and Greg Gilbert (112TC). I got my instrument and commercial immediately with another outstanding instructor.
There are other especially important things when it comes to buying a plane. I put safety first. Commander
 
sshore said:
The 114 would be a close second. Just remember, with more time and hours, the 114 is the best choice by far!

Good luck and have fun!
Click to expand...

Stephen,
I take offence to that!! My 112A does me great. I don't need the extra power or expense you guys have for my mission. I don't need to pay the big bucks to enjoy the room or how it flys. :)

Not really offended, but... I get to poke you back.. :)
 
mcgrathm said:
Stephen,
I take offence to that!! My 112A does me great. I don't need the extra power or expense you guys have for my mission. I don't need to pay the big bucks to enjoy the room or how it flys. :)

Not really offended, but... I get to poke you back.. :)
Click to expand...

Michael! Sorry you are correct - I should have said that a Commander 112/114 is the best choice by far!

BTW - I do have an airplane with the great Lycoming O-360 in it - my 81 Sundowner which I am going to fly to Arkansas this weekend. I think Commander got it right with the two best airplane engines ever made - the 360 and 540!
 
sshore said:
Michael! Sorry you are correct - I should have said that a Commander 112/114 is the best choice by far!

BTW - I do have an airplane with the great Lycoming O-360 in it - my 81 Sundowner which I am going to fly to Arkansas this weekend. I think Commander got it right with the two best airplane engines ever made - the 360 and 540!
Click to expand...

Stephen,
No worries.. Just having a little fun. I PM'd you about your Arkansas trip.
 
mcgrathm said:
Stephen,
No worries.. Just having a little fun. I PM'd you about your Arkansas trip.
Click to expand...

Both of you are clearly wrong as neither of your Lycomings has a T in it.
 
sshore said:
Good advice Moazzam. The only reason why I brought up insurance is the fact that I tried to get my son insured for my Commander last year. He is 22 years old, with 200+ hours, but no IFR rating (should be doing his check ride for that later this month) and the insurance premium was crazy high. So high that it was worth me owning a second airplane for my son to train in. Now part of the high cost may be because he is so young, but I don't think that is the complete explanation. If I remember correctly, the premium was going to be $8,000+ to add him to the approved list to fly it AFTER he received the endorsement. Compare that to $1,700 that I pay (and for a fairly high hull value) and I decided to keep my old, but trusty Sundowner for him to fly and get his IR.
Click to expand...

How much retract/complex/HP time does he have ? I think the instrument ticket helps but USAIG insurance wanted to see around at least 50-100+ retract hours. Others may vary
 
Times have changed with insurance. When I moved to the Commander I had 0 complex time/VFR/ about 300hrs/ 1 reported accident and my insurance was only about $1200 a year and I only needed a check ride. I would really like too find out what the real reason for the increase is about.
 
Robert - Thanks for checking on our Commander lineup! Spirit is a great GA airport. I think their is a guy at Creve Coeur with a 112. I'll bet he would love to let you see it. They did have a Sunday cookout every week. Not sure that' happening right now but someone there would know.
 
Hi Robert; here's some cabin dimensions til you actually get to sit in one.
The Commander is all about space, comfort and style.

Judi Click image for larger version Name: Commander cabin dimensions.jpg Views: 0 Size: 53.7 KB ID: 168767
 
It was because of my insurance at the time that I bought the Commander. The insurance agent quoted me insurance for a PA28 and the Commander. I asked him "If I buy a PA28 and fly it 200 hours and 2 years, What would the insurance be for the Commander" He said it would be the cost as he quoted. It was based on time in type. I told him he convinced me to by the Commander. He said "I did what" I said why build time if before I buy if the cost is the same. That was 30 years ago.

Upgrading to a Larger More Complicated Aircraft - 5 Insurance Tips
This is a current article in the AOPA web site

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...rcraft?CTE_Event=URLEvent&CTE_Category=Native Ad&CTE_Action=asurredpartners-0520&CTE_Label=home page promo block
 
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