Hello COG

[Carbon AV8R]

My name is Darrell, I joined in April and I just discovered the introductions forum. I guess I was already too busy asking questions and getting advise on my new/used Commander.

It's been a very loaded couple of months for myself and my family. I've been searching for another aircraft for the past year. Originally we were looking at pressurized twins, but in January the mission changed as my son and his wife decided that he would pursue an aviation career. He was hired by Republic Airways to join their training academy in July and I wanted to have an aircraft that he could fly fairly short term into his training.

The minute we decided to switch to a single, I knew what we were looking for. I have been in love with the Commander line of aircraft for many years and I knew this was the one for us. I quickly found several of the Commanders that were currently available on the market and narrowed it down to a few that would suit our needs.

In March we were in South Carolina and I was making a trip to Ohio to see my parents as my father was having some health issues. I branched off path during my layover in Atlanta when I discovered a 1974 112A for sale in Valdosta. I changed my CMH flight to later that evening and booked a round trip ticket to VLD with a two hour layover. Waiting on my VLD flight in Atlanta I ran across the COG. In the gallery I saw one of the owners shared the same last name and I opened the photo to see N4608W. When I got to the aircraft in Valdosta, while looking through the log books, I found the prop from N4608W was installed in N1181J. Small world. The plane was a no go and I continued my journey to Ohio. The following day I made a day trip to Beach City (2DJ) to look at a '76 112TC. I fell in love and started making arrangements for a pre-purchase inspection. During the process of buying the aircraft, we lost my father. He was so excited about getting a ride in the Commander, as he also had a crush on them for years. He said there wasn't another single as commanding as the Commander. So true. I will be placing a placard on the instrument panel with his name so he will get his ride he was so looking forward too.

N1858J carries the same numbers as my parents home address in Ohio, 1858. The aircraft carries the same color paint scheme as the airline I current fly for. I think she was meant for us to fly. Our new joy is currently in Mansfield Ohio (KMFD) getting an all new instrument panel and then off to the paint barn. That will be my next topic on the forum, where can I get the best paint job at a reasonable price? Watch for it, I'm needing your expertise.

A big thank you to everyone who has already offered your help and advise to us and I'm looking forward to meeting you at a fly-in some day. What a blessing to have this group for support and camaraderie. Thanks for having us.

 

[plight]

Darrell

Welcome to Commander ownership and our User Group. Sounds like good karma saying that this 112TC is for you. My first Commander was a 112TCA. A great bird. Don’t forget to post photos of your panel and paint upgrade.

 

[gmascelli]

Darrell,

Welcome to the group!

Looking forward to pictures, we all love pictures. What do you have planned for the panel upgrades?

 

[Commander91gm]

Welcome from another TC(A) owner!

 

[Jaybird]

I branched off path during my layover in Atlanta when I discovered a 1974 112A for sale in Valdosta.

Yeah, I fly to Valdosta on occasion and see that 112A all the time. Then I saw it on Barnstormers for sale and even talked about it for a friend of mine who is looking for a plane but it went under contract I am told. It's no longer listed either. Priced under $40k it definitely lets you know not to think of this as an investment, it's an expense. Welcome Darrell and Donna!

 

[Carbon AV8R]

Yeah, I fly to Valdosta on occasion and see that 112A all the time. Then I saw it on Barnstormers for sale and even talked about it for a friend of mine who is looking for a plane but it went under contract I am told. It's no longer listed either. Priced under $40k it definitely lets you know not to think of this as an investment, it's an expense. Welcome Darrell and Donna!

Hey Jay,

Walt is a nice guy, but too many red flags on that bird. The log books were a mess (with the exception of the prop log which just happened to be from Steve Koenig's aircraft) and contained very little maintenance history. Numbers didn't match up and the last compression test was straight line 75 on all cylinders. Really? The damage repairs on the nose gear door and the left rear step were really rough. The interior was atrocious. There were only 3 hours logged on the aircraft in the last 10 or twelve years and the owner didn't want to take it flying, hmmm. I may have considered it at somewhere south of 30K. He came down to 38,000, but that didn't cut the mustard. I'm happy with what we ended up with.

Thanks for the welcome post. Hoping we get a chance to meet you some day.

 

[Carbon AV8R]

This is N1858J

 

[Jaybird]

Hey Jay,

Walt is a nice guy, but too many red flags on that bird.

Thanks for the welcome post. Hoping we get a chance to meet you some day.

I'd guess the view from 200 yards is the best thing then that plane has going for it. Some crazy good 'ol boy down here'll scoop that thing up on payments buy-here-pay-here plan and the next day he'll be on here blabbering all about it. Just you watch, maybe. Yep, that's the one. Yes Sir. Yes Sir. I feel better about resale values now anyway.

Well maybe we'll meet at Fly-in at Fredrickstown in September if you don't spend everything on your new plane in the meantime. Same goes for me.

 

[Carbon AV8R]

Well maybe we'll meet at Fly-in at Fredrickstown in September if you don't spend everything on your new plane in the meantime.

There's a good chance of that happening Jay. It's seems like every 10 dollars spent converts to 50 dollars out of my wallet, but it's fun watching everything transform.

 

[Jamesdub]

Welcome Darrell,

I was in that neck of the woods (just a bit N) a few weeks ago, flew a co-work to Charlotte to pickup / purchase a Mooney.

Welcome to the group!! GREAT collection of guys / gals. Have your wife checkout the LOCO's (Ladies of the Commander Owners) - watch out - they can hold their own with the best of us . . .

Sorry to hear about your Dad. That is never easy and prayers with your adjustment . .

I have two flying son's, both Warrant Officers in the Army. Eldest just retired - was flying Citations UC-35's and just landed with United with the 7 5/6 7 series O'seas.
Watch your son when he flies in your AC11. Had mine in the left seat landing at a 5000' strip and on touchdown he immediately slammed the yoke full forward. I recovered and asked' what the heck' he just smiled and said 'muscle memory' guess the fast big stuff likes weight on the front wheel/s . . not so with me imagining my 78" Scimitar eating asphalt . .

Welcome again!
Clear Skies,
John

 

[Carbon AV8R]

Welcome Darrell

Hi John, thank you for your warm welcome and condolences. I am so amazed at the wealth of experience and knowledge floating around on this website. I hope one day I can assist someone else as much as everyone here has been helping me. Here’s to keepin’ the greasy side down!

 

[mcgrathm]

Welcome Darrell, I use to live near Sumer SC. Shaw AFB. I converted the base from F4's to F16's back in the day. My youngest daughter (34yrs old now) was born there. Maybe we can meet sometime.

 

[Carbon AV8R]

Hey Michael, I was actually at Shaw from '84-90. I was in the 33rd until I transferred to McGuire for my last four years. My eldest son (30 yrs old) was born at Shaw. That means you and I were both at Shaw during the same time period. You probably left shortly after I arrived. I came in October of '84. The F-16 A/B block 10's were there at that time.

If you ever spent anytime at the local airport, my uncle (Hal Koenig) was the field manager from '65 until he passed in '02. He retired from 9th Air Force in '65. Last thing he flew was the F-100.

Do you remember Point Set Range? My property is at the east end of the mill pond that was part of the low lever entry route. The range traffic makes a 90 degree turn at 500' overhead my property. Makes for a great photo opportunity. I have several pics of the pilots waving at me as they make the hard banking turn.

One of these days it would be great to meet up to reminisce about the good ol' days.

 

[Sherman]

Another Welcome from another TCA owner (since 1990). Our T0-360 sub topics Posts have lots of valuable . in some cases-Life Saving or Potentially Life saving info about our Powerplants components, linkages & operational experience . which you will definitely find useful in maintaining your 'new bird'.

I Luv your enthusiasm! It's nice to have new TC/A caretakers. If you take care of our unique Commanders, it'll take care of you & provide many many wonderful & memorable adventures.
Again- Welcome to you & Donna. Keep sharing with us all!

 

[Carbon AV8R]

. Our T0-360 sub topics Posts have lots of valuable . in some cases-Life Saving or Potentially Life saving info about our Powerplants components, linkages & operational experience .

Hi Sherman, Thanks for the warm welcome. I will be back in the States in October. I'm actually flying into New York and then on to Pennsylvania where I will spend a week at the Lycoming. I have signed up for a one week teardown and buildup course for the XX-360 engine.

I would like to start a thread to collect some good knowledge before taking the course, and I would like to see if any of the members have any questions they would like me to carry back for Lycoming. Let me know if you think that would be of interest to COG. It may be an opportunity for me to bring back important information to the group if I'm properly armed with the right questions to ask.

 

[Sherman]

Darrell-an intriguing proposition!

A few years back a young gent bought a TC and we Owners collectively shared a list of 'items to look at', so to speak.

Wasn't expecting this ? , and I hope our other TC/A owners add what I may miss here, but:

-Turbo Wastegate cable - mounting, adjustment, rod end line (or not), some say only high temp copper antisense, some say none, but NEVER the reg silver aluminum anti seize-will dry up and cause hard movement.

-The arm on the carburetor-the CENTER attachment nut and proper star washers-security. The arm & shaft have serrated edges which are suppose to 'lock's. Kelly lost a washer (cracked) and arm slipped-wearing the serrated fittings & giving no carb butterfly action. Fortunately he made it back to runway Safely. He wrote it up -warning us all.

Turbo oil lines-check for vibration clearances and fitting sealing into the turbo housing. Lycoming changed upper fityjngvo0deg to 45 deg & in some cases repositioned pressure line orifice input from top to slightly lower.

- Maybe its the heater czbke, but one of the cables passes very close to overboost valve casing and can vibrate hole into casing. Need to carefully secure all those cables back of engine away from anything it can vibrate against, especially fuel lines.

- Make sure fuel lines have protective sleeping- as appropriate.

- Primer lines the side Us - make sure not in contact with baffle openings-some use protective spiral wrap and some modify the vertical openings by a MMS or 2 each side of the primer lines.

Same concern at bottom rear of bottom baffle plate where primer Y initially feeds cylinders.

- Not just T0-360 but Egine monitor wiring. CHT & EGT wiring engine routing ip engine mounts to firewall grommets of choice- protect from Turbo heat.

- Fuel lines & fittings into carburetor. -Condition and security.

- Watch mixture bracket for cracking, may not be initially detectable only bu c AZ ble operation from console.6 eyes better than 4.

- Cowling security. On way to OSH 14 at 8500 windscreen started getting dusty covering. When landed at Lima OH found R Drus fitting on Nose of cowl gone. Top of cowl jammed up kn top of lower cowl extension (opening to behind prop).Prop was cutting into cowl sculpture surround. Blessed their clamps held. Safety wired till got to OSH. EAA maintenance shop did fiberglass & clip repair, new Zuess fitting found in osh marke . But Kelly was there & his cowl had multiple screws. Different production change. ADDED AN Screw & Locknut (washers front & insude) 3/8" head nut, in front on each Nose extension clip. Will never be an issue again.
Could have been a catastrophe.

-Also Added Aerodyme T0-360 Top Cowl Heat shield blanket.OR equivalent! Critical to really protect our 1600 deg exposed top cowls.The factory steel shield plate exacerbates problem. Not solves it.

-Turbo gaskets & clamps security-Believe that was wat Lycoming design with Rockwell.exhaust stack position thru lower cowl opening also related to motor mounts condition as well as rotational adjustments (limited).

- Turbo Mounting Bolts-On my 1st TC, Apparently an A&P (b4 I bought plane) had used Bolt either too short or with nyloc or ?., or castle nut?
I had to make a no nose gear (not down)landing at night 1990. Diverted from LOU to Staniford. Was enroute OUN. Mechs Found bolt laying across where gear doors hinge slots. Bolt too short. The 3 required threads could Not have been past nut as should be. HOWEVER-
I replaced every turbo mounting bolt with a Drilled AN Bolt. Use toght Pinch castle Nut + Cotter Pin through the castle nut slots. To Make sure that never happens again.

-Top Turbo Mount Bracket: from top of engine to top turbo mounting. Also on all Brackets that mount to the Engine Block, I use (AN5?)Drilled bolts with cotter pins. Allow for bracket heat expansion fitting washers.

- Baffles :must be in Good shape and the front center top angle mount that secures to the casing can crack.Adjacent to exhaust crossover pipe & proper AN Bolt/Pinch nut but NOT a nylon nut.

- Turbo Oil Drain hoses & pipe back to Sumpto1st hose from bottom of turbo 90deg angle fitting to pipe; 2nd hose to (think it's a 45deg) elbow fitting into sump: Those red silicone hoses can deteriorate (expand).Usually 'weep at clamps b4 bursting (which obviously you don't want to happen). Keeping a spare set of those silicone hoses good idea. And spare set of clamps as they can become 'worn'.
I check those between annuals 1st 'usual suspect's if you have oil weep.

-Side of Accessory case. Some plugs and the Vernatherm. 2015 had unfindable oil leak. After 20+ hrs of summer flying, Finally we figured out it was the Vernaturm (Oil temp Valve Washer Seal-related to oil cooler). . Works like a cars thermostat. You need a special 1 &1/4" Cocked 90 deg Thin Open End wrench to access it between the motor mounts, you absolutely can NOT get a socket in there on the Vernatherm head.

-Oh, on the Carb ARM, the cable rod ends should Not be on the same side. The throttle cable attaches on one side, the turbo wastegate cable on the other. If you look at the horizontal flow (side of carb arm to cable mounting brackets) you'll see which goes where although pretty sure Kelly & Joel posted pics of this critical smooth operational issue - for long cable life).

Sure I've missed a few other T0-360 peculiarities, BUT THIS IS A START!

-WHY LYCOMING DID NOT PUT A BOTTOM SPARK PLUG ACCESS PANEL FOR CYL #4 ASTHET DID for Cyl # . - -

There are tool tricks to change these ALL the spark plugs without removing the lower cowl, but involves some lower side baffle panels & the 3/8" AN3 bolts removal Aligning the nutplates is an art rear to front. Requires non arthritic hand action
. With tricky wrist actions with 3/8" drive socket & short & stub extensions, ratchet & small breaker bar. When loosening Bottom #4 plug, You don't want to jam the ratchet against the side baffle before you can get socket off the plug.

-T0-360 lots of fun. EVERY ANNUAL(Despute good notes), ReLearn alot of tricks I've used over my 29 years of caretaking TC/As.

WELCOME TO THE FUN& PRIDE OF TC Ownership!!!!!

 

[Carbon AV8R]

Great start Sherman. I have a lot of studying before class.

 

[alim]

Hi Sherman, Thanks for the warm welcome. I will be back in the States in October. I'm actually flying into New York and then on to Pennsylvania where I will spend a week at the Lycoming. I have signed up for a one week teardown and buildup course for the XX-360 engine.

I would like to start a thread to collect some good knowledge before taking the course, and I would like to see if any of the members have any questions they would like me to carry back for Lycoming. Let me know if you think that would be of interest to COG. It may be an opportunity for me to bring back important information to the group if I'm properly armed with the right questions to ask.

I think its real cool you're doing that class.
I have looked at it multiple times but never lined it up.

If you pass through the area (NY or PA) i am based at Allentown - KABE (work in NY mid-week ; work from home on the edges - PA).

Happy to show you N976MA if you want a point of comparison. I am S/N 13043 - about #12 after u ..

 

[mcgrathm]

Hey Michael, I was actually at Shaw from '84-90. I was in the 33rd until I transferred to McGuire for my last four years. My eldest son (30 yrs old) was born at Shaw. That means you and I were both at Shaw during the same time period. You probably left shortly after I arrived. I came in October of '84. The F-16 A/B block 10's were there at that time.

If you ever spent anytime at the local airport, my uncle (Hal Koenig) was the field manager from '65 until he passed in '02. He retired from 9th Air Force in '65. Last thing he flew was the F-100.

Do you remember Point Set Range? My property is at the east end of the mill pond that was part of the low lever entry route. The range traffic makes a 90 degree turn at 500' overhead my property. Makes for a great photo opportunity. I have several pics of the pilots waving at me as they make the hard banking turn.

One of these days it would be great to meet up to reminisce about the good ol' days.

Wow.. our daughter was born in 84 and we left in 86. I was in the 17th until I moved over to Field Training. We lived on base until I bought a house just south of Wedgefield SC on Hwy 261. I remember the range very well. The A10’s used it a lot and would turn near our house. I never went to the local airport when I was there. I wasn’t even thinking about GA at that time in my life with raising 5 girls. I’ll pm you later and we can talk more...

 

[Carbon AV8R]

If you pass through the area (NY or PA) i am based at Allentown - KABE (work in NY mid-week ; work from home on the edges - PA).

Happy to show you N976MA if you want a point of comparison. I am S/N 13043 - about #12 after u ..

I certainly would like to see the work you've done to 6MA one of these days.