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Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

The NECOG gave up on Frank and his IFR ticket. He maintains that getting it is more of an inconvenience than being stuck in Boyne for 2 days or the 50+% of the time he can't fly in the great Northeast! Go figure...:rolleyes:
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

IFR training definitely makes you a better pilot. I got my IFR rating at 62 (if you don't think that was hard!!)...I'm glad I did, though.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

It's actually fun to look for the funky days and go out to run a series of approaches/holds/etc. I have found it incredibly satisfying to shoot approaches to 200 and 1/2 (even a recent one to get some $0.99 avgas) and nail them. Always, always, have to have iron clad Plan B or C available but being prepared to execute professional quality approaches whenever needed is worth the investment of time and treasure.

That being said, still haven't had more aviation fun than VFR glacier surfing down on the deck. (Well maybe the John River run??)

Plenty of places and occasions to enjoy both flavors of flying. Staying current and ready to exercise both sets of privileges is well worth the effort IMHO.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Then there was the formation ILS in 1/2 mi vis... How much more intellectual fun can you have? ;-)
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

IFR ticket is an insurance policy worth having in your pocket. I renew it every year.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

In the UK we have a midway qualification, I've cut n' pasted the following :-

(The UK IMC rating is unique to the UK, Isle of Man and Channel Islands. The IMCr entitles the holder to fly in IMC weather, VFR on top of cloud and also to undertake instrument approaches such as the ILS, NDB and Surveliance Radar (SRA) procedures. The rating only allows the full privileges outside of class 'A' airspace but just the same increases the SVFR privileges within class A. Class A airspace is confined to only a few areas of the UK; airways, the London Control zone and a number of TMAs including the Channel Islands TMA. Therefore the full privileges of the rating can be used extensively within the UK.

Flight Outside the UK

For flight within the rest of Europe the rating itself is not recognised but an increase in basic licence privileges are extended. VFR allows flight down to a visibility of 1500 metres in most non-UK countries but the UK PPL restricts you to a minimum of 3000 metres (3K) and also to remain in sight of the surface at all times. The IMC rating removes these restrictions allowing you to fly on top of cloud and in an inflight visibility of 1500 metres wherever it is allowed.

Renewing the IMC

Like all qualifications they do need to be maintained. The IMCr is required to be renewed by test every 25 months. During the 25 months you must have undertaken at least one recognised approach which could be: an SRA (or PAR, a military system) or a pilot intepreted approach such as an ILS or NDB. This flight should be undertaken with a suitably qualified instructor (IRI) and signed off in your logbook.

Additional Benefits

The IMC will provide an excellent base on which to achieve an IR should that be a further aim. The EASA rules do not allow hours done during the IMC course to reduce the IR syllabus hours but many pilots do more than the minimum hours and holding an IMC will reduce that likelyhood.

The FAA (ICAO) IR

The USA recognises the IMC course training which provides for an exemption to formal training before taking to FAA IR test)

Rather than be put off by a full IFR rating especially if you are a very senior citizen the IMC fits the bill for a large number of UK pilots, it does make for a safer pilot.

Our CAA along with AOPA have fought tooth and nail not to have it scrapped by EASA, it has been agreed to leave it in place initially until 2019 with a further extension later.

The CAA carried the argument by quoting "No known IMC pilots have suffered controlled flight into terrain"
 
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Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Get the rating if you want it, Don't get it if you don't. I hope you never need it, But if you fly long enough you will sooner or later. It's better to have what you don't need , Than not have what you do. It's not an easy rating to get but very much worth it. With GPS and the like it is light years easier than the old days with coffee grider radios and NDB's.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

wab003 said:
Then there was the formation ILS in 1/2 mi vis... How much more intellectual fun can you have? ;-)
Click to expand...
Not much! ;)
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Aside from all the practical comments already made, I found my ifr training to be a challenge I enjoyed. Worth it just for that.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Stay the course. The day I got my instrument rating, the plane went from recreation to transportation. Everyone has stories, here's one of mine.

My first, no instructor present, approach was 2 weeks before my check ride. On a "practice approach" into an unfamiliar airport, the ground unexpectedly disappeared. No problem said the controller, I'll give you an IFR clearance. My response; I'm ok with that, except I'm one check ride short of an IFR rating. He got real quiet. Obviously there was a happy ending.

There was one other unexpected benefit of that approach. Since that day, the cost of training has never been questioned.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Ok fellow Commander drivers you have me convenced I am going after that ticket. Even at 55 I have a good 15 years before the FEDs pull my license. At that point I shall steal a old Cessna and auger it in. I would never do that to a Commander.
I have changed tactics and study every night. My instructor is a good one but all he wants to do is fly like me. Its up to me to fly 40 hrs or 80 before a check ride. Just like my professional Licence to support my family you have to want it bad that's the way to look at it. My instructor says that's the best IFR ship he has ever instructed in. Stable, big, and loaded with avionics. I have been temped to cut the wires on a few VORs as that's all I get to do is intersections and can't wait to get to the GPS 430 with WAAS God father ken installed in her and the other 3 GPS back ups.
Don't panic just kidding about the VORs he won't let me touch the auto pilot either for good reason I am much lighter on the yoke now that's for sure.

As for some of the VFR comments yes I will do both I love the freedom and I never fly to a destination with out a way out. With the technology I have in the cockpit now days in flight weather every thing you can see on a home computer (more actually) and the range of a Commander I'm am always within range of a hole or clear sky's. My reserve is usually about two States.
You have to be experienced pilot and a weather man to fly mega VFR trips. It would be extremely dangerous for a 60 hr pilot to just take off across the US for 2000 miles. It just so happens I love to study the weather subject and volunteer for the NWS on the side.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Great attitude, Brian. When I went on Dialysis THREE MONTHS after buying the Green Angel in 2001, I decided to use the time sitting in a dialysis chair studying for the IFR. That was 12-15 forced hours of study per week. Most all of the dialysis clinic patients either slept or watched stupid TV shows on the swell little swing over TV's they had attached to the chairs. Everyone who asked me what I was studying was shocked when I told them I was preparing for my Instrument Rating Check Ride. I think most thought I was deluding myself. But getting back in the air, and getting my instrument ticket, was a clear goal to work toward. I did the airwork as well, on many days fighting back the airsickness, which I had never had before, nor have I since the transplant, fortunately.

It was hard ... the brain does not uptake as easily as it does when you are in your teens or 20's. For me, a lot of it was just to keep reading about it. I found Rob Machado's books very helpful, with the easy going style and his attempts at humor and making it fun. It starts to sink in. I also went through the KING Schools course, but if I had to do it again, I'd go with Sporty's. I got so every time I heard Martha King's voice I would cringe and want to strangle her. That is unkind, I know, because she seems to be a very nice person and sure knows her stuff, but something about her voice just grates on me!

IFR is very intimidating at first, and will remain so even after you have your ticket for awhile. That's not a bad thing, and you never want to get too comfortable. But it wassupremely satisfying the other night when I flew the 3 nighttime IFR approaches and never got behind, always knowing where I was and what was coming. Now, that was to my home airport and I know the geography very well. I try very hard to avoid nightime IFR in general --your options are so limited if something goes wrong -- especially to an unfamiliar airport or any place with terrain, obstructions, etc. But knowing you can do it competely if an when needed takes a load of pressure off.

Keep at it!
 
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Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

I got my instrument rating at age 62 after 37 years of not flying and my CFII at age 69, so don't expect any sympathy based on age.
Berkeley Brandt
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Great discussion. I've passed my written knowledge test and I am about half way through the flying portion of my IFR training. Good reminders. As others have said, the statistics around VFR flight into IMC as well as the additional flexibility it provides is just too compelling.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

I'm impressed Dr. Brandt. I don't think I'm up for the CFII though. I do remember that getting the IFR rating at 62 was very daunting for me. As Scott mentioned earlier we just don't learn as quickly as we did in our younger years, but all of these examples prove it can be done if you want it bad enough.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

N4843W said:
. I got so every time I heard Martha King's voice I would cringe and want to strangle her.
Keep at it!
Click to expand...

LoL to funny 4843 whiskey I once tried her IFR course a friend gave me, I could not stay awake. For some reason her voice puts me out like a light. Back in 2010 the Police had a mix up their172 had an N number of a stolen 150 years earlier. After a case of mistaken ID because no one bothered to check the FAA reasigned the number. After landing on a filed IFR flight they were met with four Police cars and 8 guns drawn. It took a half hour to clear up the mess. What did the Kings do? Wrote a training course for police to deal with aviation related crime and the use of data bases to check things out befor you pull you gun.
now there could be hundreds of police if not thousands who want to ring her neck like you lol. So don't fly with her. Seriously They are nice folks that have done a lot for aviation to bad that had to happen at least they turned it in to profit. Darn not easy to post with this ipad.

Btw that's awesome Dr Brandt!
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

If you use your plane to travel, the rating is almost mandatory. You still need the flexibility to delay trips due to icing and convection, but this is very infrequent compared to the number of trips that would be delayed due to mere clouds. I file almost all the time, however VFR can be a time saver when conditions permit. IMC is fun too, I still get a smile when you pop out of the clouds at <500 AGL and the runway is right in front of you.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

todd92 said:
If you use your plane to travel, the rating is almost mandatory. You still need the flexibility to delay trips due to icing and convection, but this is very infrequent compared to the number of trips that would be delayed due to mere clouds. I file almost all the time, however VFR can be a time saver when conditions permit. IMC is fun too, I still get a smile when you pop out of the clouds at <500 AGL and the runway is right in front of you.
Click to expand...

Indeed!
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

I just finished my private and prefer VFR flying which we have on most California days. But, with an IFR ticket I can get past that marine layer on the coast where I live. So I'm working on it next to have more options and build my flying skills.
 
Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Congrats Ben, and always remember what you just got is a license to learn all about flying.
 
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