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Formation Flying

Lawrence Rippon

Lawrence Rippon

New member
LEICESTER UK
Aircraft Year
1977
Aircraft Type
112B
Reg Number
G-BEPY
Serial Number
524
It's a quiet day at the office today, so I decided not to waste any time and have formed a close formation aerobatic team featuring similar Rockwell Commanders.
I thought you may like to see some pictures from this morning's first practice session.

As you can see we are perfecting the simple "Diamond" formation before attempting anything more spectacular.
 

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Re: Formation Flying

Gee, formation is tight. Pretty slick that all four ships paid up to get identical paint jobs... ;-)
 
Re: Formation Flying

Not bad, props are in sync too.;)

Side note, I've flow formation tight (30') and loose 1/4 mile and gaggle, 1/2-1 mile.
The attention level can get intense for any extended length of time close than 3/8 mile. You have to pay attention to the other guy, Seems like the heck with the motor, oil press, temps and the like when in very close. Very tiring. IMO

Flying Alaska it was mostly 1/4-3/8 mile most of the way.
 
Re: Formation Flying

Sven

You are right, getting real close is intense and if you are going to do it in a relatively clumsy (we're not exactly flying Extra 300's) aircraft then under 50' you should really have a second pilot monitoring the gauges, especially the airspeed on the tight inside turns.

The pictures attached to this one are genuine, shot from my Commander. I was left seat and an experienced formation aeros display pilot in the right, incidentally his wife is flying the Yak. This was us forming up for a series of close formation manoeuvres during a flypast. At one point we got so close I remember seeing that the RNAV antenna on the Arrow had a bit of grass hanging from it.
 

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Re: Formation Flying

When AOPA did a photo shoot of 82J they insisted on their own professional pilots for the job. They flew for an hour like this never taking his eye of the lead plane. I watched my plane vitals. Nice to see the pros at work.
 

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Re: Formation Flying

A few of Commander owners went formation flying with a local Bonanza club. It was fun but tiring. Not something I would like to do every week. Too stressful.
 

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Re: Formation Flying

Three of us use to fly together quite regularly. It was always good fun but took a lot of concentration (well for me anyway).
 

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Re: Formation Flying

In my limited experience, I felt better with the planes within 1/4 mile because I could see them always. When we had a bunch spread out 1/2, 3/8 and more, it was unnerving because you never knew if someone was accidentally sneaking up on you. Sven, when you and Greg and I flew low up the Huron shore for 2 hours that day ... with a lot of "activity" ... I felt totally comfortable with you guys. But when we were trying to form up over the island, and flying up the Detroit River with the Gang of 6 or 7 and we were never sure where everyone was, that was not so much fun, that was not so much ! Flying with Miesch is ALWAYS a problem because he insists on staying behind you out of view ... no doubt because of the sordid activities going on in the cockpit. (Why do you think they call it cockpit?)
 
Re: Formation Flying

Formation flying requires discipline from both the wing and lead in a 2-man formation. The flight should always be well briefed beforehand ensuring each pilot knows where the flight plans to go, altitudes flown, airspeeds expected and what emergency procedures will be followed. Sort of a playbook of the flight. Discipline from lead is required to trust the guy behind him is staying in position and not going to run up his rear as well as performing all manuevers as smoothly as possible making it easier for the wing to follow. Wing's job is to ensure he follows lead precisely never taking his eyes off him a nd staying silent unless there is a problem. When this done well the only communication required between the two pilots is during form-up and the "knock it off" or "break" call to end the formation. I agree with you Scott, it's very hard to feel comfortable when you have no idea of the other pilots abilities (or with Miesch)..... On the other hand, when you know their abilities and have a playbook it is a lot of fun.

Always best to practice for any kind of "close" (>1/4mi) formation work.
 
Re: Formation Flying

I remember that day. More discipline or notta next time.
Also, when some are faster than others, that requires a lot of "holding back" which can get annoying. I've seen that many times in AK and local.

The trick I found is that the slowest is the most you'll get and deal with it. (no, I'm not thinking of Gary) During the first flight to AK in 2003. I went with a group of 105 knotters lead by a Maul. I flew with 10* flaps and 21" mp the whole way, WA and back except for my own excursions. It was not as bad as it seems. Kinda lazy flying. Used very little gas.

I'll post a video of landing behind the Maul as a flight of 2 at Anchorage when he thought I was further back. Whew! The slowest! flop, plop and stop I've ever done. :eek: Communication. Steve Posner was with me on that flight.
 
Re: Formation Flying

In flying formations (both helicopter and airplanes) besides what has already been discussed, there are several other things to keep in mind: Everyone needs to have and use the same reference points on the aircraft (briefed before hand), Airspeed should alway be at or close to maneuvering airspeed, altimeters confirmed (but not necessay) and walk thru your procedures on the ground the first few times (you'd be suprised what this will do to help work out the bugs).
In helicopters, as the flying pilot, you never took your eyes off the helicopter you were forming on until a knock off call was passed. Gets real interesting when you start overlaping the rotor blades..........
Want to up the ante? Try a formation under NVGs.
 
Re: Formation Flying

that "never takel your eyes off the lead" I know is crucial. Sven talks about discipline ... imagine the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds. When the Tbirds all went into the desert in '82, the slot was a college buddy of mine, Capt. Mark Melancon. Great guy. I helped him plan his first cross-country from Oxford, OH to Muncie, IN, when he was AF ROTC. I did not have my license but I had flown a lot with my Dad. Funny how you remember those details. The investigation concluded that the lead's altimiter was off. I have often wondered if even for a split second mark had any awareness of what was about to happen. Right now the Yankees have a hot young pitching prospect trying to make the Team ... Mark Melancon. He was born 3 years after the Mark I know. I have scowered the interned trying to figure out if he is a nephew. I'm betting he is. Their coloration is identical and I think I see a definite family resemblence ... or maybe I just imagine I do.
 
Re: Formation Flying

We used to say that the sign of a good Wingman, the Accident team finding lead in Full Afterburner and Wingman at idle and boards(speedbrakes)
 
Re: Formation Flying

Originally Posted by N4843W
(Why do you think they call it cockpit?)

In military parlance, a cockpit can be a battleground, or a place where many battles have been fought. Hmmmmmm.............:eek:
 
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