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Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

carllee

carllee

Sponsor
Supporting Member
Sponsor
Aircraft Year
1974
Aircraft Type
112 Hot Shot
Reg Number
N1144J
Serial Number
186

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Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

Still guaranteed for +5 knots? :)
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

David, you'l love it. Carl I have 150 ft of the tape for the aileron seal. 3M stuff, I had to replace mine after my "incident". Let me know if you want it.
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

davloose said:
Still guaranteed for +5 knots? :)
Click to expand...

I know, I know! I hate posting stuff like this, but I'm only posting what Robin had posted on his website (3 knots+). I have never flown without them, so can't talk about my own before and after experience. Maybe someone can help me out with this.

If nothing else, "they look cool"
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

What's the install time for them Carl? Are they painted?

If I could go two months without repairs on my Commander I'd take the money saved and buy two of everything you're selling!
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

Slow turns are more stable and not much tail kick up when I put flaps in on landing. Not worried about speed, everyday is Saturday for me. What's time.....?
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

davloose said:
What's the install time for them Carl? Are they painted?

QUOTE]

Robin says 8 hrs. They are not painted. Each plane is a little different, so they need to be trimed a little to fit before paint and install.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

Thanks Pete
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

Carl - I've got a set waiting to install so I'll try to give a before and after speed report.

I talked with Sven quite a bit about these before I purchased them. Some fine trimming is needed as tolerances are close and each plane slightly different. And everything is unpainted. I think I'll have everything painted first, then mount, then touch up as required.
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

I've been told many times by Bob Craner in the mid '90s, and other owners since, flap gap seal kit biggest improvement helps dampen turbulence and improves slow flight/ but not really add'l. speed. maybe when combined w/other speed enhancements gets you that 3 kts. it all adds up.

Judi
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

Hi Carl and All,

VERY IMPORTANT

Set the flaps at the high end of the rig range, explained as follows:

During installation of the flap seals, the flaps must be set at the top of the rig range. The rig range is 11.5 +/ 1 degrees thus the top of the range (the highest position of the flaps) is 10.5 degrees. This angle is referenced to the belly pan just aft of the the nose gear well. On most airplanes, getting the flaps up to this position will require some reforming of the wing trailing edge in the no-step area due to sunken edges from too many step ups. After installation of the seals, the flaps can be returned to their original rigging, or re-rigged for best handling and speed.

"Fit" the seals before installation, explained as follows:

For most airplanes, the seals will require some trimming before installation. With the flaps at the top of the rig range, make sure there is at least a positive air gap between the leading edge of the flap and the standing wall of the seal. If the seals are not "fitted" before installation, it is MUCH HARDER to correct them afterwards.

Install the brackets flat and rivets flush, explained as follows:

Be carefull to install the L brackets "flat" against the cove skins, trimming and/or backgrinding the brackets for any clearances needed for existing rivets, and countersinking properly for the bracket rivets so that the heads are flush and don't chafe your flap skins. It may be necessary to gently form the L's for a good compliance with the curvature of the cove skins.

The hard lesson:

I have a plane in shop at the moment with the seals mounted such that the left flap can only come up to 13.5 degrees before it makes hard contact with the seal along about half the length of the seal. This flap position is a full degree out of the the rig range on the low side (dragging) and thus about 3 degrees low of where I would like it to be at the top of the rig range. The loss of airspeed from this sloppy installation of the seals is much greater than any gain from having the seals in place.

Bottom line:

I think the seals are a worthwhile speed mod, but if installed without attention to these details, can become a great and continuing liability.

Carl,

I've been offering this advice for years, but continue to encounter airplanes I can't rig properly due to these factors, so I think a review of the instructions might be order to make sure enough attention is called to these issues. Feel free to call me for any futher clarification that might be helpful.

Owners,

Don't beat up your shop for the lowest price to install the seals. Instead, direct them to this advice, and ask them to do a careful and proper job. Else, just don't bother wasting your money.

Jim
 
Last edited:
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

I got a set from Robin before my plane went in for paint. The were installed by the paint shop so obviously they were painted with matching paint prior to install. The upcharge at the shop for the installation was about $200 as I recall (they had to take off control surfaces, balance and reweigh anyway). This is the most effecient time to do the install.

Can't say what effect the seals had since I also had the effects of re-rigging, a new clean paint job, LoPresti wheel covers, pork chop doors and smaller tires done all at the same time. All together I picked up 5 knots.
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

jrichards said:
Hi Carl and All,

VERY IMPORTANT

Set the flaps at the high end of the rig range, explained as follows:

During installation of the flap seals, the flaps must be set at the top of the rig range. The rig range is 11.5 +/ 1 degrees thus the top of the range (the highest position of the flaps) is 10.5 degrees. This angle is referenced to the belly pan just aft of the the nose gear well. On most airplanes, getting the flaps up to this position will require some reforming of the wing trailing edge in the no-step area due to sunken edges from too many step ups. After installation of the seals, the flaps can be returned to their original rigging, or re-rigged for best handling and speed.

"Fit" the seals before installation, explained as follows:

For most airplanes, the seals will require some trimming before installation. With the flaps at the top of the rig range, make sure there is at least a positive air gap between the leading edge of the flap and the standing wall of the seal. If the seals are not "fitted" before installation, it is MUCH HARDER to correct them afterwards.

Install the brackets flat and rivets flush, explained as follows:

Be carefull to install the L brackets "flat" against the cove skins, trimming and/or backgrinding the brackets for any clearances needed for existing rivets, and countersinking properly for the bracket rivets so that the heads are flush and don't chafe your flap skins. It may be necessary to gently form the L's for a good compliance with the curvature of the cove skins.

The hard lesson:

I have a plane in shop at the moment with the seals mounted such that the left flap can only come up to 13.5 degrees before it makes hard contact with the seal along about half the length of the seal. This flap position is a full degree out of the the rig range on the low side (dragging) and thus about 3 degrees low of where I would like it to be at the top of the rig range. The loss of airspeed from this sloppy installation of the seals is much greater than any gain from having the seals in place.

Bottom line:

I think the seals are a worthwhile speed mod, but if installed without attention to these details, can become a great and continuing liability.

Carl,

I've been offering this advice for years, but continue to encounter airplanes I can't rig properly due to these factors, so I think a review of the instructions might be order to make sure enough attention is called to these issues. Feel free to call me for any futher clarification that might be helpful.

Owners,

Don't beat up your shop for the lowest price to install the seals. Instead, direct them to this advice, and ask them to do a careful and proper job. Else, just don't bother wasting your money.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

The installation manual contains, to some degree, much of what you are sharing already. Wheater or not people follow it is another story. There is also a supplement that covers rivet installation etc. I'll see if the supplement can be enhanced to cover some of the finer details you mentioned.

Thanks,
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

I need to replace the simple aileron gap tape. Anyone have a suggestion for this product? I see 3m in this thread - can this be bought on ground easily or is this an online vendor purchase item. If so, where would you recommend?
 
Re: Flap Gap and Aileron Seals

Michael Boyd said:
I need to replace the simple aileron gap tape. Anyone have a suggestion for this product? I see 3m in this thread - can this be bought on ground easily or is this an online vendor purchase item. If so, where would you recommend?
Click to expand...

Email me directly with the length you need and I'll get it to you.

carl@rcmnormalizing.com
 
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