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Elevator Inoculation
- Thread starter jrichards
- Start date
Planecents
New member
Cameron, TX
- Aircraft Year
- 1976
- Aircraft Type
- 114 Hot Shot
- Reg Number
- N4771W
- Serial Number
- 101
Re: Elevator Inoculation
You and me both Dave. Did you get someone lined up to do the work? If not, let me know.
Jamesdub
New member
Enterprise, AL
- Aircraft Year
- 1978
- Aircraft Type
- 114
- Reg Number
- N114JA
- Serial Number
- 14365
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Jim,
After viewing your pictures, and sorry for not asking yesterday, does the Inoculation kit come with the mounting hardware? My local A&P specializes in avionics and may / may not have the new bolts. You may have included this earlier but my head has been in a panel upgrade for the last couple of months. Thanks, John
Jim,
After viewing your pictures, and sorry for not asking yesterday, does the Inoculation kit come with the mounting hardware? My local A&P specializes in avionics and may / may not have the new bolts. You may have included this earlier but my head has been in a panel upgrade for the last couple of months. Thanks, John
Austin, TX
- Aircraft Year
- 1976
- Aircraft Type
- 114
- Reg Number
- N114BL
- Serial Number
- 14003
Re: Elevator Inoculation
So, my elevators are off... and trying to decide how/where to have the new spars installed. The spars are essentially 'inside' the elevator, so to replace the rivets would require either a long, special bucking bar or the use of cherrymax rivets. I see where most of the ribs are attached via cherrymax rivets, so wonder if there is any downside to using the cherrymax on the spar? Obviously that would be much simpler...
So, my elevators are off... and trying to decide how/where to have the new spars installed. The spars are essentially 'inside' the elevator, so to replace the rivets would require either a long, special bucking bar or the use of cherrymax rivets. I see where most of the ribs are attached via cherrymax rivets, so wonder if there is any downside to using the cherrymax on the spar? Obviously that would be much simpler...
Attachments
Glendale, AZ
- Aircraft Type
- 112TCA
- Reg Number
- N91GM
- Serial Number
- 13184
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Dont mess with it- the only one approved to install the spar is the vendor referenced in these threads.
They have the jigs to do it right. I saw the ones that Greg Torres had done for his 114 and they did a real nice job.
Don't think the FAA will sign off on a local install.
Dont mess with it- the only one approved to install the spar is the vendor referenced in these threads.
They have the jigs to do it right. I saw the ones that Greg Torres had done for his 114 and they did a real nice job.
Don't think the FAA will sign off on a local install.
Lawrence Massachu$etts
- Aircraft Year
- 1975
- Aircraft Type
- 112/A
- Reg Number
- N1226J
- Serial Number
- 226
Re: Elevator Inoculation
David - there are competent shops that do this type of work all the time and have the necessary jigs to install an approved spar. For example, AAS should be able to do it easily.
Perhaps someone local can give you a couple of options in or around TX.
David - there are competent shops that do this type of work all the time and have the necessary jigs to install an approved spar. For example, AAS should be able to do it easily.
Perhaps someone local can give you a couple of options in or around TX.
Glendale, AZ
- Aircraft Type
- 112TCA
- Reg Number
- N91GM
- Serial Number
- 13184
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Need to isure that the elevator is straight when riveting the new spar and no twist is inadvertantly induced in the elevator.
Need to isure that the elevator is straight when riveting the new spar and no twist is inadvertantly induced in the elevator.
Cincinnati, OH
- Aircraft Year
- 1998
- Aircraft Type
- 114TC/115TC
- Reg Number
- N114AD
- Serial Number
- 20020
Re: Elevator Inoculation
David,
If the shop doesn't know what kind of jig is needed, they shouldn't be doing the work. If you have the replacement spars and fittings for them to use, Williams in Indiana is also "highly experienced" with Commander elevator spars and has the jigs. Suggest you get quotes from qualified vendors. Most FAA certified repair stations should be capable. Some will be set up for control surfaces while others perhaps less so.
David,
If the shop doesn't know what kind of jig is needed, they shouldn't be doing the work. If you have the replacement spars and fittings for them to use, Williams in Indiana is also "highly experienced" with Commander elevator spars and has the jigs. Suggest you get quotes from qualified vendors. Most FAA certified repair stations should be capable. Some will be set up for control surfaces while others perhaps less so.
Planecents
New member
Cameron, TX
- Aircraft Year
- 1976
- Aircraft Type
- 114 Hot Shot
- Reg Number
- N4771W
- Serial Number
- 101
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Joel, where are you coming up with this info? The AD does not mention "Approved" installers. As long as the regs are followed by a competent mechanic. I understand it is a major structural piece, but it's not like you are de-skinning the whole elevator. The nose doesn't even get undone.
Joel, where are you coming up with this info? The AD does not mention "Approved" installers. As long as the regs are followed by a competent mechanic. I understand it is a major structural piece, but it's not like you are de-skinning the whole elevator. The nose doesn't even get undone.
Cincinnati, OH
- Aircraft Year
- 1998
- Aircraft Type
- 114TC/115TC
- Reg Number
- N114AD
- Serial Number
- 20020
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Part PMA is just that... approval of a part that is "equal or better" than the original for which the PMA part is intended as a substitute. Doesn't come with installation restrictions as it is offered for sale to be used by any certified repair station in lieu of the OEM part.
There are many parts offered under PMA,... some may be installed by owners under the FAR maintenance provisions, some need A&P signoffs. Given that this part is for a flight control surface, it is prudent to consider using a shop used to dealing with such structures and using the part-time A&P in the corner hangar two doors down may not be the best choice. Then again, there are any number of EAA A&P's that oversee or help in construction of many control surfaces that could do a bang up job on the install. This ain't rocket science if you are "skilled in the art". Due diligence on, and price quotes from, vendors under consideration is the order of the day.
Part PMA is just that... approval of a part that is "equal or better" than the original for which the PMA part is intended as a substitute. Doesn't come with installation restrictions as it is offered for sale to be used by any certified repair station in lieu of the OEM part.
There are many parts offered under PMA,... some may be installed by owners under the FAR maintenance provisions, some need A&P signoffs. Given that this part is for a flight control surface, it is prudent to consider using a shop used to dealing with such structures and using the part-time A&P in the corner hangar two doors down may not be the best choice. Then again, there are any number of EAA A&P's that oversee or help in construction of many control surfaces that could do a bang up job on the install. This ain't rocket science if you are "skilled in the art". Due diligence on, and price quotes from, vendors under consideration is the order of the day.
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Glendale, AZ
- Aircraft Type
- 112TCA
- Reg Number
- N91GM
- Serial Number
- 13184
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Graig
I do agree with Bill and believe that you should have the right to have any qualified A&P,IA do the repair. I also recall reading somewhere in the long winded posts regarding this issue that there was only one repair station that was approved by the FAA, and there was some issue having it done locally. Possible that I either mis-read or misinterpreted what I read, but that was my understanding.
Graig
I do agree with Bill and believe that you should have the right to have any qualified A&P,IA do the repair. I also recall reading somewhere in the long winded posts regarding this issue that there was only one repair station that was approved by the FAA, and there was some issue having it done locally. Possible that I either mis-read or misinterpreted what I read, but that was my understanding.
Planecents
New member
Cameron, TX
- Aircraft Year
- 1976
- Aircraft Type
- 114 Hot Shot
- Reg Number
- N4771W
- Serial Number
- 101
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Bill is correct. If you are in the know and know whom you are dealing with, all is good. For the average owner, a flight control repair station is definitely the way to go. It is better to go with a proven track record than to wish you had. In my case, I work with the IA who is doing the work and I know how meticulous he is on everything he does. I may have to eat crow later, but I am doing what I think is best for my bird. I had nightmares of shipping them to Bethany or anywhere for that matter. Something about them being at the mercy of the freight hauler. Hopefully I can show the work at Sedona, if I can get it all together and the weather goes my way.
Bill is correct. If you are in the know and know whom you are dealing with, all is good. For the average owner, a flight control repair station is definitely the way to go. It is better to go with a proven track record than to wish you had. In my case, I work with the IA who is doing the work and I know how meticulous he is on everything he does. I may have to eat crow later, but I am doing what I think is best for my bird. I had nightmares of shipping them to Bethany or anywhere for that matter. Something about them being at the mercy of the freight hauler. Hopefully I can show the work at Sedona, if I can get it all together and the weather goes my way.
South Burlington, VT
- Aircraft Year
- 1978 580
- Aircraft Type
- Super Commander
- Reg Number
- N555LP
- Serial Number
- 14405
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Hi All,
Aerodyme and AAS have fixtures. Other shops would need to construct a fixture for constraining the elevator during correspondence drilling, or the airplane itself can be used as the fixture (there are some advantages to this).
Roy of Williams advised me in June he would not be doing any more Commander elevator or rudder repairs, and since he has not ordered any additional spars from us, this must be true.
Jim
Hi All,
Aerodyme and AAS have fixtures. Other shops would need to construct a fixture for constraining the elevator during correspondence drilling, or the airplane itself can be used as the fixture (there are some advantages to this).
Roy of Williams advised me in June he would not be doing any more Commander elevator or rudder repairs, and since he has not ordered any additional spars from us, this must be true.
Jim
Cincinnati, OH
- Aircraft Year
- 1998
- Aircraft Type
- 114TC/115TC
- Reg Number
- N114AD
- Serial Number
- 20020
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Not an accurate observation Jim. ACW (Williams) still repairing Commander control surfaces if customer provides appropriate parts. Roy is not purchasing parts for Commanders as fleet is a niche market.
Not an accurate observation Jim. ACW (Williams) still repairing Commander control surfaces if customer provides appropriate parts. Roy is not purchasing parts for Commanders as fleet is a niche market.
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South Burlington, VT
- Aircraft Year
- 1978 580
- Aircraft Type
- Super Commander
- Reg Number
- N555LP
- Serial Number
- 14405
Re: Elevator Inoculation
Hi Bill,
OK, but I am still a bit confused. Roy did a rudder for me in May, but declined to do another one for me in June, saying, and I quote him, "I am not going to do any more Commander stuff". So I sent it further across the country, to AAS.
Jim
Hi Bill,
OK, but I am still a bit confused. Roy did a rudder for me in May, but declined to do another one for me in June, saying, and I quote him, "I am not going to do any more Commander stuff". So I sent it further across the country, to AAS.
Jim
N4843W
New member
SE MI
- Aircraft Year
- 1977
- Aircraft Type
- 114
- Reg Number
- N4843W
- Serial Number
- 14173
Re: Elevator Inoculation
I know Roy was quite upset about what happened. Best wing shop in the world. He saved my wing situation last October after the Texas hatchet job and I have visited their shops and seen other repairs and rebuilds. Nowhere like it. Perfect work. Fair prices. Roy was doing 100% competent repair/replacements, approved by Detroit FSDO, then got "the call" by another FSDO location telling him to cease and desist. Made no sense, whatsoever.
Whatever the reason, or explanation or circumstance, I don't care about any more. At that time, at least, what Roy did was 100% legal by the definition set forward by the FAA. If anyone wants to dispute that, I will not engage in the conversation further or get into any kind of pissing contest about it. Post what you like. Matters not anymore. As they say, "it is what it is" -- but it is a damn shame.
I know Roy was quite upset about what happened. Best wing shop in the world. He saved my wing situation last October after the Texas hatchet job and I have visited their shops and seen other repairs and rebuilds. Nowhere like it. Perfect work. Fair prices. Roy was doing 100% competent repair/replacements, approved by Detroit FSDO, then got "the call" by another FSDO location telling him to cease and desist. Made no sense, whatsoever.
Whatever the reason, or explanation or circumstance, I don't care about any more. At that time, at least, what Roy did was 100% legal by the definition set forward by the FAA. If anyone wants to dispute that, I will not engage in the conversation further or get into any kind of pissing contest about it. Post what you like. Matters not anymore. As they say, "it is what it is" -- but it is a damn shame.
TSHEMMEN
New member
Prescott, AZ (110 miles NW of Phoenix)
- Aircraft Year
- 1976
- Aircraft Type
- 112 Hot Shot
- Reg Number
- N1476J
- Serial Number
- 476
Re: Elevator Inoculation
I have a wooden crate built by a skilled woodworker that I used to ship my elevator across the country for repair. Cost was $200. If anyone needs a crate (could be used as a casket down the road) let me know.
I have a wooden crate built by a skilled woodworker that I used to ship my elevator across the country for repair. Cost was $200. If anyone needs a crate (could be used as a casket down the road) let me know.