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Easa approved

Tintin

Tintin

New member
Aircraft Year
1958
Aircraft Type
Other
Reg Number
N865SA
Serial Number
599
The RCM Normalizing is approved in all european countries. After nearly two years of paperwork back and forth between Robin Miley, EASA authorities and myself, we finally got the EASA STC approval. For the time being I have the only modified aircraft in Europe, but the modification is now approved.

FAA STC No: FAA STC SE5203NM = EASA STC No: EASA.IM.E.S.01014
FAA STC No: FAA STC SA5202NM = EASA STC No: EASA.IM.A.S.02045

Once again I want to thank Robin for the excellent cooperation he showed thoughout the certification prosess.
 
Re: Easa approved

Awesome! Congratulations.
 
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Excellent work, I'll be waiting in line when the next engine is due, not long now ~ 3 years.

Perhaps a quick recap of what is involved for we Europeans who tend to block out anything that we can't get our hands on over here.
 
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Congratulations Martin ! Welcome in the Turbo World !
 
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That's great news Martin.
 
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That is really great news for the Over-The-Alantic eastern crowd. Congrat on the outcomes............. :cool:
 
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I am very pleased with the turbo modification. When I get oxygen installed, I will make the best of it flying 177kts at 16 000 feet. Does anyone have a recommendation on a oxygen system?
 
Re: Easa approved

Martin,

I am a 112B Hotshot s/n 526 and have a great oxygen system, There are ways to do it very economically (I never us the word "cheap") so don't shell out a lot of money until you are sure of what you are doing.

I am not sure of the situation in your home country, but in the USA there are ways.

I have two AL-682 cylinders that hold 682 litres or 24 cu ft of oxygen. They came off ebay due to the large number of people that die off each month. I start with a medical oxygen bottle with an expired hydo test. Local gas supplier charged $24.00 each to change the top to aviation and hydro test them, and fill them.

My gauges were in the plane when I purchased it and they work very well. The cylinder is secured in the baggage area, with a SS braided hose to the regulator that fits on the bulkhead of the rear seats. Can be hooked up and adjusted from the front seats. I have pics if you send me your email.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken Andrew
 
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Ken, I would like to see the pics. I had a factory sytem that was removed but still has the guages and fill point. Was looking to see what had to be done to put it back together.
 
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Hi Martin

I've seen you up her up for sale.
Are you not satisfied with the results?
I consider to get G-BFPO to be converted.

Markus
 
Re: Easa approved

Martin, Well done persevering with EASA. They are worse than politicians. A couple of points ;- first, do you know if this applies to the 114B? I'd be really interested to find out more if it does. The second point is regarding the use of medical oxygen systems. There's oxygen and oxygen... Medical oxygen is likely to have a higher humidity than aviation oxygen. If there was a possibility of any parts of the delivery system being exposed to near or below zero degree temperatures then there is a risk of ice forming and blocking the oxygen line. Add the adiabatic expansion effect from the bottled gas and you could end up with a problem. There are a lot of systems that attach to wheel chairs and these seem to fit the bill.
When you start looking at systems you also have to consider how you'll refill it. If portable there's a choice of adaptor because, wouldn't you know it, the European and North American systems can be different. So you may need to carry different adaptors in the plane.

Isn't it time we had a fly in to Ørland ?
 
Re: Easa approved

Rob: O2 is O2, that's it. there is no difference between O2 for welding, medical, or aviation, it all comes from the exact same place. No humidity is added to medical O2 until it reaches the patient. The price for Medical and Aviation is much higher because they can. If you want a good discussion of this, check out Pelican's Perch articles, written by a guy named Deacon. I
 
Re: Easa approved

OK. Bear with me here guys. This one could kill you. O2 itself is O2 - no question. But what might appear to be the same thing from one source can be quite different when taken from another. Take 'water' as an example. We all know what water is...right??? How many types of bottled water do you know?

Grade 'A' O2 sounds like the real McCoy doesn't it. But Grade 'A' O2 is the lowest O2 concentration considered fit for human consumption. It's also allowed to have both CO2 and CO present in it... Grade 'A' O2 is only 99% O2.

Medical grade O2, Grade 'C' or 'D' I think, can have up to 50PPM water content and even has a specified Dew Point. The further through the alphabet you go, the purer the O2.

Grade 'E' O2 is much purer. Grade 'E' is AV O2, as in aviation O2. It has to be at least 99.6% pure. This happens at the expense of its water content, down to less than 10PPM. The effect is to significantly lower the dew point and the chance of ice accumulation as a result.

Grade 'G' is better...then it gets even purer. Aerospace construction that employs Ti welding uses Grade '5' O2. This is nearly 100% pure. It has its uses in a variety of academic and research fronts. It smells of...nothing at all.

The bottom line is probably that you don't ever want to risk using O2 where the source is uncertain. O2 is produced for industrial use and has ended up being used for humans. It can have significant contaminants in addition to water.
 
Re: Easa approved

Hi Allen,

This is quite an uninformed and misleading article. Mr Deacon starts with "Oxygen is oxygen. It is the substance that matters, not the intended purpose. These days, welding, medical, and aviation oxygen are exactly the same. All three come from the same tank of liquid oxygen (LOX). The liquified form is the cleanest, purest, driest form of oxygen (or any substance) you'll find anywhere." and when he later questions the FAA rules he completely missed or omitted the point that it's not the FAA that sets the rules here. His editor should have thrown the article back at him.

O2 is regulated by medical bodies in the USA and everywhere else as if it was a drug. They take a different view on "The liquified form is the cleanest, purest, driest form of oxygen (or any substance) you'll find anywhere." It just isn't. LOX is a raw material with contaminants. One of these is H2O. The higher the H2O content, the higher the dew point. The higher the dewpoint, the greater the risk of ice formation in the system at low temperatures.

The trick is to keep all the plumbing in your O2 system above its dewpoint for maximum safety. Mixing of different grades of O2 is allowed but there are rules. Aren't there always?
 
Re: Easa approved

I don't have an oxygen system in my 114, but here are my thoughts, regardless:

a) If it's going in my lungs from a source other than ambient air then I want to make sure it's certified for human consumption. That means it has to have the right label on it, has to come from a certified tank, the tank has to be filled using certified methods, etcetera. I don't want someone that's been filling oxy-acetelene welding tanks all day to make a mistake filling my breathing tank. And, yes, in the USA oxygen for human consumption is a regulated drug so the guy at the welding supply house filling your breathing tank might be in deep trouble.

b) If I'm flying in a Commander and the cabin temperature gets cold enough to freeze water vapor then I'm in the wrong place. Get me on the ground where I can find a warm hotel room. That means I'd be more than happy to use any fit-for-human-consumption oxygen, and not just aviation grade. However, if the oxygen tank is sitting in the airplane, on the ramp or in a hangar, and the outside air temperature gets low enough to freeze water while I'm not in the airplane then, yeah, maybe it makes sense to have the drier O2.
 
Re: Easa approved

You would trust Mountain High, makers of fine aviation oxygen systems.... yes?

Contrary to a common and published myth, there are no different
grades of oxygen being produced or contained in cylinders maintained
under DOT regulations. By the very nature of the state-ofthe-
art, process in which oxygen is produced, it will be better than
99.99% pure. In other words, it all originally comes from the same
spout no matter what the purpose. In addition, oxygen for medical
use does not have any more moisture than oxygen for any other purposes,
nor is it added. Furthermore, because of the chemical nature
of oxygen it must be as pure and
dry as possible if stored under
pressure or else the cylinder and
equipment may be damaged, or
worse, personal injury or death
may occur. Therefore, a hygiene
protocol is necessary in order to
prevent oxygen from being contaminated
or to help keep contaminated
oxygen from being
used. This, perhaps, is why many
believe there are
Click to expand...

http://www.mhoxygen.com/attachments/132_Transfilling Information.pdf
pg 18
 
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This is off the FAA website. Its not an Advisory Circular, but appears to be a general Aviation training document and concerns itself with the O2 equipment:

Gaseous aviator’s breathing oxygen (ABO).

"Aviator’s oxygen must meet certain standards to ensure that it is safe to be taken to altitude. Only aviator’s-grade breathing oxygen meets this specification. Neither medical grade nor industrial grade oxygen is safe to substitute because they do not meet the same stringent standards as ABO."

Not much else in the document on the subject of O2 as a gas. One supply place here in San Diego supplies industrial and medical O2, but no "ABO"...

Regards
 
Re: Easa approved

This is a good example of a useful thread. Gather substantial information from multiple sources and come to your own conclusions. You may even want to factor in your usage altitude range (8K - 14K heated cabin w/ a seat back bottle vs externally stored supply and a cabin subject to emergency decomp @ 40K, etc.) Good civil discussion folks. :-)
 
Re: Easa approved

I know John Deacon and he has about 30,000 hours in every kind of plane immaginable from Cubs to 747's and is one of the few guys who can certify you to fly warbirds of about any kind. I have taken 2 classes from him and talk to him via email now and then. That is a preface to say, "If John Deacon says it -- that is good enough for me."

p.s. He is also a GAMMI guy, and a huge advocate of Flying LOP -- presuming you have the equipment and know how to do it correctly. There are those who still say, "fuel is cheaper than cylinders (or valves)" which is an incredibly mis-informed statement. Not to bring that one up again, only to say that this situation may be similar.
 
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