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Commander down, glad all ok

Pat

Pat

Guest
Sturgis, MI
Aircraft Year
1993
Aircraft Type
114B/115
Reg Number
N374JW
Serial Number
14595
The accident of N374JW, Feb. 22. Both Rick Crepas and I were doing our biannual flight review then because of very bad weather conditions the last month. Both of us had our previous review done on Jan. 26, 2018 and therefore the CFI was PIC. After about 1 hour of flying and many TOs and landings with Rick in the back seat . I did a cross wind take off, very soon after rotation, gear and flaps still down, the CFI pulled the throttle to idle and asked what I was going to do. I had already lowered the nose and said I would land straight ahead. He said, “My Plane” and turned back to the other runway expecting to land on it without power. We recognized we would not make the runway without power, I went full throttle. We lost altitude in the turn and we were low, we continued to lose altitude, gained a little speed, another slight turn to align with the terrain and he raised the nose for a main gear landing. The plane then shuttered and stalled. It tore the main wheels off and drove the gear through the wings. We got out uninjured and there was an engine fire in the left cowl opening. We put it out with the plane’s fire extinguisher.

Hopefully this information will help others.
 
Thanks Pat, after 50 years of flying I am still learning from others.

Ken
 
Thanks Pat,
I am due for my biannual in April of this year and I may be using a new instructor so this helps me greatly in knowing what to say to the CFI prior to flying with him. It appears to me that you did everything that you could to avoid the outcome.
Keep your chin up and take care.
Bob
 
Pat thanks for the facts. Lots of arm chair discussions about the published info.
Glad you are OK.
Instructor at fault for sure - insurance?
 
I’m sorry my friend, now you play the mental games of “what if”
 
Pat

Thanks for story and glad you and everyone else is ok too. That was a very bad idea by the CFI to bring the engine to idle for a simulated engine failure at what was reported about 300 ft. Good to know you took over the best you could when the CFI put the plane and everyone in it into a very bad and dangerous situation, and added full power or you probably would have stalled and got into a spin with that idiot CFI.

You might want to consider talking to an avation attorney too for advice before making statements to the FAA and insurance companies as this accident sounds like a big headache.
 
Pat - best of all - glad to hear all ok - you worked very hard on your commander and it would really upset me if something like that happened to my airplane.
 
Dear Pat,

Thank you for sharing this vital operating experience, so that all of us can learn from it. Whilst the outcome badly bruised the plane, you all walked away from it, and that is the overriding positive from this event.

In near time you will be flying again. All the best,

Pete
 
Thanks for sharing, while painful, ‘lessons learned’ are there to help others. All the best dealing with the aftermath. My Son was a CFI at Flight Safety, moved on to a Regional. He told me some of the more ‘extreme’ events(low altitude engine outs) were discussion or ‘demo’ maneuvers. Not that you’d be compared to his low hour students, but why have higher risks in the training environment.

Back when I was instructing I always left enough margin to salvage the event. That would start with some quick verbiage , then take over if required. Even flying a Cherokee, the 300’ may of been marginal for any ‘turning back’. It’s all in hindsight, gotta wonder how familiar the CFI was, with Commanders.
 
Pat - glad you and your passengers are OK. That is the main thing.

You were a HUGE help to me a couple of years ago when I first got my 114B and I would not be where I am now in regard to flying it if it were not for you and a couple of other members of this group (Carl Lee, Greg Walker, and Judi Anderson).

I hope you are back in the air soon.
 
Pat ... glad to hear that know one was hurt. When I have flown with an instructor in the commander, we do the simulated engine failure at altitude, using a 3,000 foot hard deck to simulate airport elevation.
 
This being the second recent incident that i am aware of that was CAUSED by the instructor.
Another (will remain un-named) owner had a gear-up cuz the instructor pulled his power on a go-around ( i think).
This one -the CFI wanted to show his own "skills". I can almost hear "watch this".


I think an up-front agreement with any instructor in the right-seat is mandatory.
We naturally defer to CFIs. They are not gods. Many are low-time. Many don't have experience in type. Many are overconfident.

It sickens me to think of what happened here.
I think the FAA should revoke the CFI's ticket. Thankfully no one got hurt.
 
Pat,
Connie and I are praying for you and Betty. You guys were the first COG-er's we met (@Dayton) and you both made a very positive impression on Connie and myself. Thank You!!

Hope you are able to catch your breath and sincerely hope you are able to acquire another AC11 . .

Godspeed,
John
 
Pat we're all just so happy you and Ric are fine. people are what's important.. if not your Savvy long time Commander 114 experience that could have ended up a different way.

Judi
 
alim said:
This being the second recent incident that i am aware of that was CAUSED by the instructor.
Another (will remain un-named) owner had a gear-up cuz the instructor pulled his power on a go-around ( i think).
This one -the CFI wanted to show his own "skills". I can almost hear "watch this".


I think an up-front agreement with any instructor in the right-seat is mandatory.
We naturally defer to CFIs. They are not gods. Many are low-time. Many don't have experience in type. Many are overconfident.

It sickens me to think of what happened here.
I think the FAA should revoke the CFI's ticket. Thankfully no one got hurt.
Click to expand...

No question many CFI could be pilots and very low time, trying to build time to for there future career in aviation and doing check rides for pilots with thousands of more hours, and never flown in this case a Commander and checking you out and very scary.

CFI taking over as pic after his engine out when Pat said he would land straight ahead at 300 agl, attempting a to make a crosswind runway at 300 agl is a long shot too, and glad to see Pat recognized the bad CFI decision and situation in the air and added full power to try and save the the aircraft from the terrible conditions the CFI put him into.
 
Glad you are OK and what a terrible experience. It is like going in to have surgery on your left leg and they do it on your right leg.
 
Glad you all walked away. Sounds like you saved some lives there my friend. That instructor was lucky to have you in the plane!
 
Glad you and everyone else are okay Pat. What a tough pill to swallow. Thanks for sharing.
 
WOW, what a shock to read the. So sorry for you and Betty. Glad to hear you were not hurt.
 
Both my bi-annual flight reviews were completed in rented C172's instead of in my Commander 114. At first I was a little miffed that the flight schools wouldn't instruct in my aircraft to do the bi-annual. However, hearing these horror stories I will gladly pay the extra dinero to rent a C172 owned by the school.
 
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