I'm looking at a 112A and am interested but I'm looking for some realistic idea of what I'd be getting myself into. About me, I bought a 172M, used it to get my license and totaled up a little over 400 hrs on it. It's the only plane I've ever flown. I'm looking to move on and in my quest for what's next I came across Commanders and am intrigued. I guess I'm curious about...everything really. I've read a lot of stuff but what is the real owner experience? I'm in Washington, near Seattle, are there good mechanics near me? It's a 1975 and I saw the AD's what else should I be looking at? What's realistic for an annual 5,000 - 6,000? More, less? What are typical issues? I'm interested in anything you've got good or bad, thanks for your help.
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Advice? A looker not an owner
- Thread starter jking
- Start date
Glendale, AZ
- Aircraft Type
- 112TCA
- Reg Number
- N91GM
- Serial Number
- 13184
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
Pretty easy annual. If nothing major is found or put off until annual then you should be below 2k. Even less if you participate .
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
Pretty easy annual. If nothing major is found or put off until annual then you should be below 2k. Even less if you participate .
jukelemon
New member
Louisville, KY
- Aircraft Year
- 1977
- Aircraft Type
- 112B Hot Shot
- Reg Number
- N377SB
- Serial Number
- 526
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
I would highly recommend owner assisted annuals in general. There is no better way to get to know your plane in my opinion.
Mine are 1k plus whatever else needs to be done.
These are great planes and, coming from a newer owner, the mystique around these planes and being hard to service or hard to find parts is way off. Unless you need a wing or something the like, they are just like any other plane in terms of parts and availability. You MAY have to search a little harder but they are there/available.
The only thing to be weary of is the useful load in the 112s. It adds up quick and in reality these are 1+1 planes for longer trip and maybe 1+2 for short hops. If you need more useful, look at the 114s. In hindsight, I wish I would have done this and found a 114 Hot Shot
But oh well. My 112 HS delivers 95% of my flight plans which is fine.
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
I would highly recommend owner assisted annuals in general. There is no better way to get to know your plane in my opinion.
Mine are 1k plus whatever else needs to be done.
These are great planes and, coming from a newer owner, the mystique around these planes and being hard to service or hard to find parts is way off. Unless you need a wing or something the like, they are just like any other plane in terms of parts and availability. You MAY have to search a little harder but they are there/available.
The only thing to be weary of is the useful load in the 112s. It adds up quick and in reality these are 1+1 planes for longer trip and maybe 1+2 for short hops. If you need more useful, look at the 114s. In hindsight, I wish I would have done this and found a 114 Hot Shot
But oh well. My 112 HS delivers 95% of my flight plans which is fine.
Jamesdub
New member
Enterprise, AL
- Aircraft Year
- 1978
- Aircraft Type
- 114
- Reg Number
- N114JA
- Serial Number
- 14365
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
Morning Jim,
I think you will love the Commander series. It will be a bit of a learning curve at first but definitely doable. Roominess, payload, stability and ramp appeal make it an excellent choice.
Annual inspection cost are a loaded question and vary with each owner. I've always been able to 'owner assist' with depaneling, cleaning and prepping things. I always try and have all required items on hand prior (never works out completely - but I try).
My worst annual was $915 with an average of 8 yrs of $495. (before the Boo Birds descend on me - I have and maintain an excellent relationship with my A&P IA and basically try and keep the big ticket items fixed throughout the year)
In this area the going rate is $800 for retracts / $600 for fixed gear.
Insurance - average is $1600 / yr.
Don't forget and research the local / state annual Taxes in your area.
Hangar (local pricing)
Database subscription ($700+ per yr)
Only negative side (if that) is I'd like a bit more speed . .
but like I often offer ( When I'm at cruise and have things trimmed out - I still have to pinch myself to make sure it's not a dream ) . . .
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner.
Morning Jim,
I think you will love the Commander series. It will be a bit of a learning curve at first but definitely doable. Roominess, payload, stability and ramp appeal make it an excellent choice.
Annual inspection cost are a loaded question and vary with each owner. I've always been able to 'owner assist' with depaneling, cleaning and prepping things. I always try and have all required items on hand prior (never works out completely - but I try).
My worst annual was $915 with an average of 8 yrs of $495. (before the Boo Birds descend on me - I have and maintain an excellent relationship with my A&P IA and basically try and keep the big ticket items fixed throughout the year)
In this area the going rate is $800 for retracts / $600 for fixed gear.
Insurance - average is $1600 / yr.
Don't forget and research the local / state annual Taxes in your area.
Hangar (local pricing)
Database subscription ($700+ per yr)
Only negative side (if that) is I'd like a bit more speed . .
but like I often offer ( When I'm at cruise and have things trimmed out - I still have to pinch myself to make sure it's not a dream ) . . .
Burlington, WI
- Aircraft Year
- 1976
- Aircraft Type
- 112/A
- Reg Number
- N1456J - IO-390
- Serial Number
- 456
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
I think the big ‘wildcard’ is the history of the plane in question? There’s no way one can take a neglected plane & expect a lower cost annual, and then going forward. The 112 looks as nice as the 114, but has a smaller envelope of utility. With that in mind we need to back up to your expected use?
I would start by meeting up with a local owner(112 or 114) and ask & check things out in person. I will say, the Commander does fine with ramp appeal.
I think the big ‘wildcard’ is the history of the plane in question? There’s no way one can take a neglected plane & expect a lower cost annual, and then going forward. The 112 looks as nice as the 114, but has a smaller envelope of utility. With that in mind we need to back up to your expected use?
I would start by meeting up with a local owner(112 or 114) and ask & check things out in person. I will say, the Commander does fine with ramp appeal.
Attachments
Lawrence Massachu$etts
- Aircraft Year
- 1975
- Aircraft Type
- 112/A
- Reg Number
- N1226J
- Serial Number
- 226
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
This is an excellent point. If your first annual consists of taking care of all the stuff the previous owners buried, it can be pretty costly. But once the aircraft is properly maintained, $2K is a realistic number for an annual for a 112.
When I bought my 112 I was very lucky. I had never owned an aircraft before and only knew about Commanders from some reading I'd done (most of it wrong). I happened to get a very nice aircraft that had been well taken care of.
If I was doing it again I'd hire a broker/dealer/mechanic/guru familiar with Commanders to help me purchase.
This is an excellent point. If your first annual consists of taking care of all the stuff the previous owners buried, it can be pretty costly. But once the aircraft is properly maintained, $2K is a realistic number for an annual for a 112.
When I bought my 112 I was very lucky. I had never owned an aircraft before and only knew about Commanders from some reading I'd done (most of it wrong). I happened to get a very nice aircraft that had been well taken care of.
If I was doing it again I'd hire a broker/dealer/mechanic/guru familiar with Commanders to help me purchase.
Denver, CO
- Aircraft Year
- 1976
- Aircraft Type
- 114
- Reg Number
- N4742W
- Serial Number
- 14072
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
James,
I have a 114 and my approach to maintenance may be different from others. When I take 42W in for it's annual, I typically don't have the time for owner assistance. It would be great if I did. So I rely on my A&P and we have a solid relationship. I fix things as I notice them during the year. Then when I hit my annual, I have it plus anything major-ish that I've been saving up for done. Example, one year, I had gear lights put on during my annual.
My annuals run around $2000 - 2500 as an average - which typically includes fixing anything or making additions. Last year, it was worse, I dealt with an elevator spar, so that pushed me north of $3000 if memory serves me.
I just budget X dollars a month, to put into my pseudo-savings account (checking account I use for the plane) that helps me build a cushion and keep 42W in the manner she's accustom to.
When I purchased 42W, she had just come out of an annual. I didn't know the plane, the shop or have any knowledge, so through this board, I found a great shop in the area with Commander experience for my pre-buy. I spent 2x the cost of the prior owner's annual. He paid $1000 for the annual which included a change of oil and some work, so I was somewhat concerned. While I spent a bunch for the pre-buy to tell me everything was ok - I felt relieved and had confidence in the systems/platform. For the most part, it's been relatively painless... so far
Good luck!
Dean
James,
I have a 114 and my approach to maintenance may be different from others. When I take 42W in for it's annual, I typically don't have the time for owner assistance. It would be great if I did. So I rely on my A&P and we have a solid relationship. I fix things as I notice them during the year. Then when I hit my annual, I have it plus anything major-ish that I've been saving up for done. Example, one year, I had gear lights put on during my annual.
My annuals run around $2000 - 2500 as an average - which typically includes fixing anything or making additions. Last year, it was worse, I dealt with an elevator spar, so that pushed me north of $3000 if memory serves me.
I just budget X dollars a month, to put into my pseudo-savings account (checking account I use for the plane) that helps me build a cushion and keep 42W in the manner she's accustom to.
When I purchased 42W, she had just come out of an annual. I didn't know the plane, the shop or have any knowledge, so through this board, I found a great shop in the area with Commander experience for my pre-buy. I spent 2x the cost of the prior owner's annual. He paid $1000 for the annual which included a change of oil and some work, so I was somewhat concerned. While I spent a bunch for the pre-buy to tell me everything was ok - I felt relieved and had confidence in the systems/platform. For the most part, it's been relatively painless... so far
Good luck!
Dean
Longview TX
- Aircraft Year
- 1995
- Aircraft Type
- 114B/115
- Reg Number
- N6105U
- Serial Number
- 14625
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
I have been a Commander 114B owner all of two weeks. In that time, I have flown my airplane from Islip NY home to Texas last week and this week from Texas up to OshKosh.
Wow! What an airplane!
You won't regret buying a Commander. I went from a Beech Sundowner to the 114B and it was a very easy transition. The Sundowner got me spoiled for a pilot's side door. When looking for a low wing with a pilot's door you don't have alot to choose from.
The Commander was a great choice for me. After doing alot of research, I knew that I wanted a Commander 114B.
BTW - contact Judi Anderson. Unless you are an expert on this type, Judi is a "must". She will not misguide you. That I can guarantee.
I have been a Commander 114B owner all of two weeks. In that time, I have flown my airplane from Islip NY home to Texas last week and this week from Texas up to OshKosh.
Wow! What an airplane!
You won't regret buying a Commander. I went from a Beech Sundowner to the 114B and it was a very easy transition. The Sundowner got me spoiled for a pilot's side door. When looking for a low wing with a pilot's door you don't have alot to choose from.
The Commander was a great choice for me. After doing alot of research, I knew that I wanted a Commander 114B.
BTW - contact Judi Anderson. Unless you are an expert on this type, Judi is a "must". She will not misguide you. That I can guarantee.
Nationwide
- Serial Number
- ALL
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
Thanks Stephen, but there's always a few that fall through the cracks. Mr. King please feel free to ask me about any you see I have information on over half the fleet happy to share what I have with you.
Judi
Thanks Stephen, but there's always a few that fall through the cracks. Mr. King please feel free to ask me about any you see I have information on over half the fleet happy to share what I have with you.
Judi
davec
New member
Lockport, IL
- Aircraft Year
- 1974
- Aircraft Type
- 112/A
- Reg Number
- N1189J
- Serial Number
- 189
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
My annuals run a bit more as well, but I also don't do owner assisted annuals, and usually have a few small things I want taken care of during annual, or something comes up maintenance wise. My first few years of ownership were up around 5K, but now it's down to around 2-3k. Again, this is not really with a "lowest cost" mindset, and Chicago is not the cheapest market.
I think one of the things that is often overlooked is just the sheer ability to sit in this cockpit for long periods of time - it makes using it as a family/couple traveler much more enjoyable - albeit my seats were re-built/recovered at some point, but its the same seat frame. I never really felt comfortable shoulder to shoulder in the Archer I flew before- I could tolerate it, but it wasn't "comfy".
My annuals run a bit more as well, but I also don't do owner assisted annuals, and usually have a few small things I want taken care of during annual, or something comes up maintenance wise. My first few years of ownership were up around 5K, but now it's down to around 2-3k. Again, this is not really with a "lowest cost" mindset, and Chicago is not the cheapest market.
I think one of the things that is often overlooked is just the sheer ability to sit in this cockpit for long periods of time - it makes using it as a family/couple traveler much more enjoyable - albeit my seats were re-built/recovered at some point, but its the same seat frame. I never really felt comfortable shoulder to shoulder in the Archer I flew before- I could tolerate it, but it wasn't "comfy".
Nr. Albany, GA
- Aircraft Year
- 1974
- Aircraft Type
- 112 Hot Shot
- Reg Number
- N1182J
- Serial Number
- 155
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
James.
My annuals are always $1400.00, plus any parts I buy and take with me. I have slowed down a lot on what we do at annuals. I only repack the wheel bearings every other year as I calculate my mileage on the ground. I have any needed parts purchased ahead of time from the best vendor.
Reading Mike Bush column we no longer pull the injectors and clean them at every annual, we do the 500 hr mag overhaul if due.
I am very lucky as my Commander is very trouble free.
Life is a barrel of fun.
Ken Andrew.
James.
My annuals are always $1400.00, plus any parts I buy and take with me. I have slowed down a lot on what we do at annuals. I only repack the wheel bearings every other year as I calculate my mileage on the ground. I have any needed parts purchased ahead of time from the best vendor.
Reading Mike Bush column we no longer pull the injectors and clean them at every annual, we do the 500 hr mag overhaul if due.
I am very lucky as my Commander is very trouble free.
Life is a barrel of fun.
Ken Andrew.
mcgrathm
New member
Savannah, TN
- Aircraft Type
- 112/A
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
Rates for Annuals: A/P’s I guess are running about $90/hr around here, so what ever you can due to reduce the hours always helps. Most mechanics hate the removal/ install of panels to do a 10 min check on something, so just doing that cuts a lot of cost.
The elevator AD isn’t so bad. I bought a borescope and you can take the wingtips off to inspect. Just a little cumbersome working the borescope.
Landing gear seems to be pretty reliable. Changed seals in one actuator which was not costly at all. Keep the gear cleaned and lubed you should not have any problems.
I’ve flown my 112A across the country to Oregon several times and love the ride and space. I would have been out there now if it weren’t for some other issues I’m dealing with. I would have loved to fly up there and give you a ride.
BTW: My Avitar is my 112A at Logan Utah where I stoped for the night.
Using risingup.com I did a comparison between the two. You would defiantly see a marked improvment is speed, rate of climb and ceiling. Useful load at 50gal of fuel are about the same. Note: there are 112A’s with 68gal usable capacities increasing your range far beyond your bladder @ 9gph cruise.
Rates for Annuals: A/P’s I guess are running about $90/hr around here, so what ever you can due to reduce the hours always helps. Most mechanics hate the removal/ install of panels to do a 10 min check on something, so just doing that cuts a lot of cost.
The elevator AD isn’t so bad. I bought a borescope and you can take the wingtips off to inspect. Just a little cumbersome working the borescope.
Landing gear seems to be pretty reliable. Changed seals in one actuator which was not costly at all. Keep the gear cleaned and lubed you should not have any problems.
I’ve flown my 112A across the country to Oregon several times and love the ride and space. I would have been out there now if it weren’t for some other issues I’m dealing with. I would have loved to fly up there and give you a ride.
BTW: My Avitar is my 112A at Logan Utah where I stoped for the night.
Last edited:
painlesspotter
New member
Concord, Ca.
- Aircraft Year
- 1977
- Aircraft Type
- 114
- Reg Number
- N4887W
- Serial Number
- 14217
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
I repack when replacing tires. Bearings still good, after many decades. Why every other annual?
John P.
Ken A
I repack when replacing tires. Bearings still good, after many decades. Why every other annual?
John P.
Glendale, AZ
- Aircraft Type
- 112TCA
- Reg Number
- N91GM
- Serial Number
- 13184
Re: Advice? A looker not an owner
My A&P said every 250 hrs - Tire life is way beyond that (especially the nose.)
My A&P said every 250 hrs - Tire life is way beyond that (especially the nose.)