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200kts Commander

wel@wilroff.nl

wel@wilroff.nl

New member
Supporting Member
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Aircraft Year
1998
Aircraft Type
114TC/115TC
Reg Number
N623TC
Serial Number
20023
So if we really want a 200kts Commander it would need a 320+ turbocharged or supercharged engine like the Cirrus G3 Turbo.

Have you started on the supercharger for the IO 580 yet Jim?
 
He hasn't because if he had I would be 200+. Im ready for that.
 
Re: 200kts Commander

Lonnie,
I think you would be disappointed in the performance of a turbocharger.
You will not get much boost at 20 feet over the water in the inland passage or at tree top flight. That is unless the trees are on the top of a mountain.
 
Lol. Pat your right but would it help while inverted????!!!!!
 
Re: 200kts Commander

Wow a 200 knot Commander would give Bonanzas and Mooney run for the money and with greater cabin comfort to boot.
 
Re: 200kts Commander

How about a PT-6? :)
 
Re: 200kts Commander

nahhh

all you need is a turbocharged or supercharged 300+ BHP engine...

A Supercommander with extra breath
or
A good diesel engine from SMA or Continental with 300+ BHP should do the trick

For futuresake the latter will be the very best solution!
 
Re: 200kts Commander

I wouldn't mind seeing some day Diamonds sister company Austro Engine expand and add some replacement engines for other brands and models for aviation, a Commander on the ramp with the noise from a diesel engine does sound cool.
 
Re: 200kts Commander

I think a Commander with a diesel engine and full fuel would have about 150 lbs payload...
 
Re: 200kts Commander

That does look like a nice solution Alex
 
Re: 200kts Commander

The PT6A conversion on a bonanza cost $400k all-in...
 
Re: 200kts Commander

No kidding ouch, $400K to burn what ??? 38 gal per hour.
 
Re: 200kts Commander

The rolls sure is a nice option.. But would also cost 250.000.. You would not havea great range with 25-30 gph ..

With a 300+ bhp jetfuel engine .. You would be back in the 12gph or less range .. But now you would fly 200kts
 
Re: 200kts Commander

todd92 said:
I think a Commander with a diesel engine and full fuel would have about 150 lbs payload...
Click to expand...

Todd

You might want to take a look more seriously at the Jet-A Engine from SMA in France and nothing to ignore and will be the wave of the future if GA is survive with such high fuel costs and we have been slowly getting there just like Europe has experienced such high costs for many years.

SMA producer of the Jet-A engine is a major company employing 60,000 people in 35 locations worldwide and in TX too, and a deal with Lycoming in the works. There numbers are impressive as you will see below and as I mentioned wouldn't mind seeing a Jet-A version for engines as a replacement some day would be great;

-182 TC Gross Weight 3110# 114 3140# (Both Planes Pretty Close in #)

-SMA Engine WEIGHT 455# 114 438#

-TBO-2400 Hours 114 2000 Hours

-100% Takeoff Power 12.1 GPH 2200 RPM

-Cruise 11 GPH 156 Knots 1200 NM 114-14.3 GPH 147 Knots 665 NM

-1500 NM Flying Economy

-Range 1360 NM

-Total Fuel 87 GL 114 70 GL

-Useful Load 1018# 114 1102#

-Full Fuel/Payload 435# 114 682#

-Takeoff 775 FT 114 1390 FT

-Land 1350 FT 114 680 FT

-Climb 1000 FPM 114 1088 FPM

-SMA Engine is a Drop In Replacement for the Cessna 182 TC

-227 HP 114 260 HP

Pretty impressive numbers for there new Jet-A engine I thought and wouldn't mind an option for the Commander some day, but probably wont see it it as the I0-540-T4B5D Lycoming wants to bury it and mothball it as it has the single mags. You have to give credit to Cessna/Textron as they get it right when they do something and a reason they are #1.

http://www.cessna.com/single-engine/turbo-skylane-jta
 
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Re: 200kts Commander

You are absolutely right to say that Cessna is digging it and that the sma230 version 2 is a serious engine. In fact it would qualify easily for a 114 and 114b as with dieselengines they state you may run continuous at 100% .. But eve if you reduce to 85-90% you are still close to 75% of 260bhp.

Ideally I would like to see a 270-320bhp range engine but with no greater weight than 450-500lbs dry. Sma announced a 6 cyl with 330-400bhp at 595lbs.
Continental is heavily invested in diesel now .. Which is logical when you consider that for ga to make it in china it will have to be jet a driven, they will never accept avgas. Continental now owns thielert with low bhp engines 135-170bhp and a 400bhp engine which would really do well in the big old twins like duke, 340, 421, etc, and thy have the rights of the 1st sma230 which they are rebuilding to 270 and 300bhp versions..

I would be very surprised if by 2020 there still are no jet a Commanders. Especially if you consider that here in holland a gallon of avgas now goes for euro 11,16 which is roughly 15,5 usd and for the 114tc I calculatewith 17gph.

Ps if only sma would make a counterrotating 230 it also would make it the perfect engine for the seneca (6?)
 
Re: 200kts Commander

I'd love a SMA Diesel Commander. The issue I have is AVGAS not available at some of my destinations.
 
Re: 200kts Commander

Hi All,

After seeing Lonnie's air work at T82 yesterday I am not sure we could mount more than 320 HP without filing our departure plans with NASA....

But seriously... I am watching these programs. Thus far, the scenarios have not been great. We need the HP to carry the load off the ground, and thus far, that leaves us too heavy and forward. I do agree the trend in these designs is in the right direction.

And... we can do a Rolls Commander anytime someone is ready to pony up. In the 1-2M range to get the first one of those off the ground, assuming Rolls is involved as I believe they should be.

Jim
 
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