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112 Hot Shot

Re: 112 Hot Shot

Hot shot is applicable to the 112.


SuperCommander is eligible for 114 and up.


Not 112.
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Hot shot is applicable to the 112.


SuperCommander is eligible for 114 and up.


Not 112.

Although there's also a turbo-normalizing solution from RCM for the 114 and Aerodyme has an IO-390 STC for the 112s.
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Hey tony yes I get that point! Well still figuring things out! Still trying to determine useful load on my plane. Not sure I trust the weight and balance. I will be heading down
To start flying it in a couple weeks.
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Yes Glenn can’t wait to talk to someone about the 390 option. I still have a lot on time on my engine so I will figure it out. Glenn have you been down to Taunton?
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Yes Glenn can’t wait to talk to someone about the 390 option. I still have a lot on time on my engine so I will figure it out. Glenn have you been down to Taunton?

It's more a matter of what altitude you like to operate at than anything else. Not really which is better and which is worse. If you plan to operate the airplane between 1500 and 15000ft the Hot Shot makes more horsepower. If you do a lot of airshows and need to impress a crowd on the ground the Super is louder and makes more horsepower.
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

It has been posted, evaluate your mission for the plane when you look at modifications. An important item to look at with the mission of your plane is how long do you plan to own it, move up or relocate. True resale value can be very important. I have heard several aircraft owners say "they wish they had not put the money into the mod." This includes owners of other airplanes.
Of course, if this is your "baby" and plan to own it for the rest of your life, by all means, GO FOR IT.
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Carl,
Just listened to the Savvy Aviator webinar on turbochargers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p22FOawoTCM&feature=youtu.be

Interesting point brought up about the intercooler.

Is there any guidance on engine performance charts with the intercooler installed on the Hotshot? The intake air would be cooler than normal, thus the performance charts would be off. Is there any rule of thumb of how much the intercooler cools the air with and without the turbonormalizer running?
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Carl,
Just listened to the Savvy Aviator webinar on turbochargers.

Interesting point brought up about the intercooler.

Is there any guidance on engine performance charts with the intercooler installed on the Hotshot? The intake air would be cooler than normal, thus the performance charts would be off. Is there any rule of thumb of how much the intercooler cools the air with and without the turbonormalizer running?

Nice presentation. He's kinda talking to a general audience, and combining turbo charged with turbo normalized. These could be broken down into 2 separate discussions. When he talks abut adding aftermarket intercoolers, he's talking about adding an intercooler to a factory turbo charger system. This has nothing in common with the Hot Shot system. The Hot Shot system adds a turbo to a naturally aspirated engine. A naturally aspirated engine takes in whatever temperature air exists in the environment in which its operated. The intercooler can't cool the air below whatever temperature that is, so can do no harm, and makes no difference to the performance charts. Adding an intercooler to a factory turbocharged engine makes a big difference because the engine is always boosted, so is always ingesting heated air. Changing that changes everything.

Also, he's right about having a manual wastegate on a turbo charged engine - it's a bad idea, but on a turbonormalized engine it has several advantages.

Discussions like this are a good reason for attending the COG fly-ins. It's a lot easier to discuss this kinda stuff in person than typing our fingers to the bone:-)
 
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Re: 112 Hot Shot

Waaaaait Just one Minute....I have a manual wastegate on my turbocharger and I wouldn't have it any other way. Simple, effective, and inexpensive. What's not to love???
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Nice presentation. He's kinda talking to a general audience, and combining turbo charged with turbo normalized. These could be broken down into 2 separate discussions. When he talks abut adding aftermarket intercoolers, he's talking about adding an intercooler to a factory turbo charger system. This has nothing in common with the Hot Shot system. The Hot Shot system adds a turbo to a naturally aspirated engine. A naturally aspirated engine takes in whatever temperature air exists in the environment in which its operated. The intercooler can't cool the air below whatever temperature that is, so can do no harm, and makes no difference to the performance charts. Adding an intercooler to a factory turbocharged engine makes a big difference because the engine is always boosted, so is always ingesting heated air. Changing that changes everything.

Also, he's right about having a manual wastegate on a turbo charged engine - it's a bad idea, but on a turbonormalized engine it has several advantages.

Discussions like this are a good reason for attending the COG fly-ins. It's a lot easier to discuss this kinda stuff in person than typing our fingers to the bone:-)
Hi Carl.

Why is there an intercooler on the Hot Shots then if it makes no difference?

I must not be tracking the topic right...

The intercooler is prior to the intake and serves the point of cooling the air after the turbo in a Hot Shot no?
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Waaaaait Just one Minute....I have a manual wastegate on my turbocharger and I wouldn't have it any other way. Simple, effective, and inexpensive. What's not to love???

Yes you do, and it functions beautifully. I'm not sure if you watched the entire presentation, but it was very good, but also fairly generic and non specific. When he was talking about a manual wastegate, I took it to mean a separate wastegate controller. Not one that's linked directly to the throttle - like yours. I can't imagine him having a problem with what you have. I would not call your system a "manual system". I would call it a "linked system".
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Carl
Any ETA on when you will be producing hot shots again?
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

What I gathered from the presentation is a concern that the intercooler, as designed, cools the air temperature relative to the compressed air coming out of the turbo normalizer, thus giving a mismatch in the performance numbers. You're right, it will not be cooler than the ambient air temperature. Would it be beneficial to measure the temperature of the air post intercooler? I wonder if the JPI engine analyzer uses the OAT to calculate %HP or if it could alternatively use Post Intercooler Temperature if that was available? Relative to OAT, what kind of temperatures are we looking at coming out of a intercooler on the Hot Shot? 10C hotter?
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Hi Carl.

Why is there an intercooler on the Hot Shots then if it makes no difference?

I must not be tracking the topic right...

The intercooler is prior to the intake and serves the point of cooling the air after the turbo in a Hot Shot no?

Hi Jason,

In the presentation the speaker is talking about adding an aftermarket intercooler to a factory turbocharged engine. This would have a dramatic impact on performance, so the the charts in the POH would no longer be accurate. With a factory system the turbo is used during all operations, so none of the data could be relied upon.

With the Hot Shot you can fly the airplane as much as you want without using the turbocharger at all, and all of the chart data will be accurate. The intercooler will have no impact on this because it can't cool the air anymore than the temperature in which you are operating. As soon as you turn the knob and start using the turbo you need to refer to the supplemental POH to get accurate performance information. The intercooler comes into play only when you are using the system and has an impact. How much of an impact? probably a lot, but the system was never offered without one, so none of us will ever know for sure. The system was designed with it, it was test flown with it, so there is no data available without it.

Again, good presentation, but was not designed to get into this kinda specific information.
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Carl,
Beautiful setup. I like the turbo performance. I notice in your picture, the turbo has heat shield. Is this something I can install into my 114tc. I can see this beneficial as 114 turbo is located below #4,#6 cylinder and those two cylinder are slightly higher temp than the rest of the engine cylinder. Your though.
 
Re: 112 Hot Shot

Carl, Help me understand the 112HS POH versus the standard power chart. Let me take one example, both at 8000ft, STD temperature and 2500 RPM.

In the std tables, w/o turbo normalize, to achieve 65% power, the MP would have to be 20.3 inches; while with turbo normalizing, it takes 22.2 inches. In fact, if you dialed the MP back to 20.3 inches, with the turbo normalizing, according to the table in the supplemental POH, you would only be getting 57% power. This seems inverted to me. What am I missing?
 
Carl,

I'm looking at Commanders right now, and keep hearing about the 112 Hot Shot STC. I can't seem to find any info on cost or install time/location on the RCM website. If you have a moment, please shed some light on it for me.

William
Shopping for my first plane
Montgomery Field in San Diego
 
William, Carl has stopped producing the Hot Shot conversions (at least for now).
My advice to you is that if you plan on flying above 10K, over mountains or just to fly over some weather ( at least in a 112), buy one of the turbocharged birds .
My 112 is not, and even with a low time engine, 2 passengers, baggage and a healthy load of fuel, she’s what I would call anemic above 10-11K. The 112
Commanders are great flatlander mounts. Their sweet spot seems to be 3500 to 8500, Some would say the same for a NA 114.
It all depends on your flying style and needs.
I have only owned one for five years, ask one of our more senior members who purchased theirs new! See what they say. Good luck with your search. These are truly comfortable, great handling birds. You’ve come to the right place.
 
Hi William,

The system is not available at this time, If you're in the process of looking for a plane, there are around 50 of them flying, around 1/5 of the 112 fleet, so your best bet is to find one that has already been converted.
 
I have a used 112 Hot Shot system that I'm currently overhauling. I'm going to make it available for sale later this month, and ready for install by the end of April. It will be essentially an all new system with all new, or remanufactured major components, fasteners, and hardware. If interested please contact me through my website: www.rcmnormalizing.com
 
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