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The conversation

Re: The conversation

I would have actually given a slight edge to the females perhaps? I like the "down there - up here" comeback, but it doesn't come out right when you are on the runup pad and they are up in the tower!

5 hours of flying today starting on the far side of Atlanta to lancaster PA via Athens, Spartanburg, Charlotte, Roanoke, Hagerstown, Harrisburg approaches and all the Centers back an forth ... probably 15 or more controllers ... everryone was absolutely great.
 
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Hi Scott and all,
need your help. Maybe some of you remember my forced landing afther having changed the floater of the Marvel-Schebler HA-6 carburetor. After they checked it a second time fuel flow went up to normal again. Lust Sunday I was doing a little airwork and while I was pulling "her" up (doing kind of a half lazy eight) the engine started stottering again. As soon I pushed "her" down, the problem solved itself. Before we had the carb. fixed, this never happened. In the meantime I talked to a lot of people. Everybody agrees that this is not suppose to happen but no one had an idea, what the problem could be. Now I'm counting on you people. It's not a great feeling, knowing, that something is not working right, especially when you are flying most the time in the middle of the alps, where you find very little spaces to put her down in case something goes wrong.
Thank you for your kind help already in advance.
All the best to all of you
 
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Hansjoerg,
Why not add your question to your original post on this subject rather than break into another person's thread? Have you paid your dues to join the group where you can find a wealth of valuable information in the members only forums?
Now I cannot give you a specific answer to your question but can give you a partial answer by telling you a story of an old carburated boat I once owned. You see here in the States our gasoline often contains ethenol as an additive that tends to dry out parts within the carb and gererally wreaks havok on things. Anyway, this carb started to generally perform poorly and sputtered and would spit up fuel. We rebuilt it twice and it never did run properly. Finally I just decided to give up and replace the poorly performing unit with a new one. Never had an issue again. I know this will be way more expensive than working on your existing carb but we are talking about an airplane and your life. Sometimes you just lose faith in something and the best thing to do is replace it.
 
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The worst example I ever saw of a nasty controller was at Farmingdale, LI, several years ago. Trying to get out IFR on a miserable, hazy summer afternoon, an incoming Piper messed up his initial call to the tower and set the controller into a tizzy. All of a sudden, none of the aircraft's radio calls were acknowledged and tower declares everything has to stop because of a "NORDO" aircraft. Round and round this went, many aircraft stacked up with props (or turbine$) spinning, while tower spends some fifteen minutes of misplaced aggravation sending the guy round and round (all the while using his full call sign to tell him he couldn't hear his transmissions).

Totally uncalled for, and when anyone dared complain, he snapped back it wasn't his fault, blame the Piper. It may have been hot in the tower cab, but it sure was horrific on the tarmac. As number two to depart throughout this mess, I managed to get out some sixteen odd minutes later. On climb out and on to departure, I bluntly told him "poorly done, tower". Looking back at the field, there were loads of airplanes queued along the taxiways, and departure sounded frustrated with having to hold onto arrivals. Big D!, as we used to say at USMA.

I'm happy to let them know when they are doing a good job, and often, you do get someone outstanding in tower or approach or en route who deserves that comment. While it never helps to complain on frequency for the lousy ones, I would bet it does help to call afterward and complain to the supervisor. I should have done that at KFRG, but call back and ask for a supervisor once when I got a churlish and insulting FSS specialist -- the boss acknowledged she had had another complaint and would review the tape to take action. Lesson learnt: the tapes work both ways in helping root out the troublemakers...
 
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Acutally, I've only done this once, and I completely forgot I did it, but I remember it worked really well. At the first sign of a controller issue, I just keyed the mike, and nice and slowly said " Tower,(or who ever your talking to), the name and telephone number of your supervisor please", and after that He seemed to want to be very helpful. It's hard to remember to do, but it seemed to work like a champ. Of course if you're in the wrong, you don't have a leg to stand on. Most of the controllers are just fine 99.9% of the time, but some of them can be having a bad day and something like that might just calm them down.....2Cents please...
 
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Saw this on the AOPA web site today:

"Air Safety Foundation honors controllers for flight assists
AOPA Air Safety Foundation President Bruce Landsberg on March 22 helped pay tribute to air traffic controllers and the life-saving role they can play for GA pilots in distress. He presented 10 Flight Assist commendations to controllers from around the country at NATCA's annual safety conference.""

The article went on to name the Controllers that were honored.

regards

~Marc
 
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Arriving Cherbourg in endless VMC. Requested arrival information and joining instructions. No traffic except me, none. Called right hand downwind. Female controller acknowledges and asks me to report right downwind. Clarified that I am now late right downwind and had just called downwind and this is acknowledged. Turn base and think I'll let her know. She reads back and asks me to report turning base. I go along with this again but say I just did that and say I'm just about to turn short final. This is once again acknowledged. I call short final and then asked to report my position! So I do this and tell her I'm short final to land and she sort of 'rogers' that and gives me the wind and so on. Do you know that cold feeling you get when you're momentarily disorientated? There was something wrong at that very moment and over the last few minutes. something with the pilot/controller interaction. hair standing on the back of my arms. Am I landing at the correct airfield? Looking at the numbers on the runway, the airfield graphic on the chart. Can't find anything wrong in those, how many seconds? not many. Wheels down, flaps - all the usual stuff checked again. She gives me the wind and I land. And I'm still rolling out when she informs me I landed without clearance to land. And as Scott so eloquently put it WTF ! She was absolutely correct and she had distracted me for the entire landing sequence. On the other hand the service we get here is generally great, no complaints and generally very accommodating. Stuff happens...
 
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So I guess my question is , why didn't she clear you to land? What does the controller guidence over there say about giving clearance to land? What were her intentions, to let you get into the flare and then go around just prior to touchdown because she wasn't giving you clearance to land? Or was she waiting for you to ask (beg) for landing clearance. Controllers are there to Help you, and provide an orderly, safe flow of traffic.
 
Re: The conversation

Rob,

Intesting experience, I think that we all hesitate to look stupid and just ask, " Did I miss my clearence to land"

I had the same exact experience flying IFR into Fairbanks AK. Kept waiting for the magic words but was wandering the whole time if I had just missed them. Reported short final and over the numbers. Still nothing and I landed. The tower had to be very well aware of who I was and where I was. Nothing was said so I assumed I had just missed the transmission.

A month later at home I played the camcorder recording of the whole landing.
It starts 30 minutes out and after hand off to the tower I have listened to every second of it quite a few times. I was never cleared to land.

Now of course all I had to say was "Am I cleared to land" but I did not.

Interesting.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken Andrew
 
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Ken,

You don't need a clearance. That's just how they roll in Alaska. :)
 
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If I have any doubt about instructions I just say: "Verify I'm cleared to (xxx)". I try to use the same language that control uses when they query me. I've had them ask me to verify the ATIS code or verify traffic in sight, so it's an acceptable practice and no one will think any less of you for it.

regards

~Marc
 
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I would normally ask for confirmation (especially IFR)and was caught out this time. Our usual procedure at a controlled field is, if not cleared to land, go around at 200'. Simple. I was mesmerized by the wierd encounter.

On another occasion I was on the approach to a field with converging runways. Just called short final when everyone on the frequency was entertained by a cabin announcement from an airliner. Hello, I'm so and so and I'll be flying you to London, the weather is xxx and expected flight time yyyy. All that good stuff as I went round...
 
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At least a few times over the years, turning final I've asked ATC, "have any magic words for me?" and I've rec'd a pretty quick response, "...Oh, sorry. 3TC cleared to land." Sometimes they also get distracted. Perhaps someone just entered w/ a bag of fresh doughnuts... ;-)
 
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I here they let their kids work the mic in New Yawk......Talk about distracting!
 
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Most of our home base controllers at Willow Run I know well after 9 years ... when one didn't clear me to land recently and I was turning final, I asked "Willow Tower, cleared to land or just do 5 snaprolls down the runway at 50 feet, pull up into a hammerhead then go around ... your choice." He answered ... "Ohmigod ... I would LOVE to see the snaprolls but I think we'd both get in a lot of trouble ... better just land I think."

Roger that.
 
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N4843W said:
Most of our home base controllers at Willow Run I know well after 9 years ... when one didn't clear me to land recently and I was turning final, I asked "Willow Tower, cleared to land or just do 5 snaprolls down the runway at 50 feet, pull up into a hammerhead then go around ... your choice." He answered ... "Ohmigod ... I would LOVE to see the snaprolls but I think we'd both get in a lot of trouble ... better just land I think."

Roger that.
Click to expand...

If you're really good you may not loose the tail, snap rolls are very hard on airframes. They barrel roll ok, kinda pig like.:cool:
 
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