History on Commander Ownership

[Pat]

History on Commander Ownership

While looking for more information about the new Commander ownership, I ran across some interesting articles. I am sure this is nothing new to the Old Timers, but even I learned some things. There were many more articles but these are a summary of 1990 to now. The purchase by MS. Mao did not pop up. It is Saturday, but in Michigan there isn’t any flying today. Freezing Rain & Snow

Commander Aircraft to Debut Bethany Company On Track With Production
Published: Sun, March 8, 1992 12:00 AM
After two years of production delays, a Bethany aircraft company finally will debut its long-awaited product next weekend
https://newsok.com/article/2387353/...ebut-bethany-company-on-track-with-production

General Aviation Market Data, Trends, and Stats | 2000-2017
The recession from December 2007 to June 2009 had a massive impact on the general aviation (GA) aircraft manufacturing industry.
http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/General-Aviation.html

Commander Aircraft back in business after owners group buys assets
JULY 22, 2005 BY JANICE WOOD
A group of Commander owners acquired the assets of the bankrupt company June 29. The new company, dubbed Commander Premier Aircraft Corp. (CPAC), paid $1.7 million for the FAA type certificates for the line of four-place, high performance, single engine aircraft, as well as all jigs, tooling and other manufacturing assets necessary to produce new Commanders.
“When no serious buyer appeared to establish new manufacturing operations for the Commander, we decided to do it ourselves,” said Bob Tippens, a director of the new company and one of the original organizers of the Commander Owners Group (COG), a worldwide association of Commander aircraft owners. About 50 members of the owners group, from around the world, banded together and raised the money necessary to purchase the Commander assets.
HTTPS://GENERALAVIATIONNEWS.COM/200...K-IN-BUSINESS-AFTER-OWNERS-GROUP-BUYS-ASSETS/

New owner for Commander Premier Aircraft
JULY 14, 2009 BY JANICE WOOD
Commander Premier Aircraft Corp. (CPAC), based at Cape Girardeau Regional Airport in Missouri, has been sold to Aero-Base Inc. of Montreal, Canada. “The sale of CPAC to Aero-Base will mark the conclusion of CPAC’s original mission to find or create a responsible company to produce new Commander aircraft and provide parts and service to the existing Commander fleet,” declared Gregory Walker, president. Officials report the sale was cast into doubt when CPAC’s biggest lender sold a CPAC note to Burlington, Vermont-based Aerodyme Corp., one of the company’s original stockholders.
The new owner of Commander Premier Aircraft, Ronald G. Strauss, said he plans to modernize the four-seat Commander with a larger engine and modern avionics. He described his future plans to AOPA Pilot in a telephone interview from Montreal
https://generalaviationnews.com/2009/07/14/new-owner-for-commander-premier-aircraft/

Commander Aircraft Corp. to occupy 2 Westheimer hangars
By Joy Hampton Apr 29, 2014
“Commander Aircraft was born in Oklahoma, and our focus has always been to get back to the state where Commander was well known and respected,” General Manger Bouri Mao said.
https://www.normantranscript.com/ne...cle_54687f92-c389-57ee-9fd2-588fd90a84e2.html

 

[Pchaser]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Just a thought.
As unpopular as it might be with a number of the members here, you can not fault Ms. Moa for not embracing this group.

The history of ownership,while some of it is noble also stinks of greed!
I personally think it’s a wise choice on her behalf to start with a new management team with fresh ideas.

Let’s be honest with ourselves as much as some of us think our input and support is critical to the new ownership, the success of Ms.Moa’s group is vital to keeping the value and operation of the fleet going!

You can buy hardware kits from Jim Richards, performance parts from Carl Lee, and some other mechanicals from the original manufacturers.
Smack up your plane and go looking for airframe parts and it’s a whole different ball of wax! Recently while doing some research before purchasing a new plane I came to the conclusion that salvaged commander parts are of the same cost of turbine Beechcraft parts.
Without the Mao/Commander group in operation the cost of insuring a commander will continue to increase do to availability. In the insurers eyes a small incident could be enough to considered the aircraft a total loss.

 

[ksandrew]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Fred,

salvaged commander parts are of the same cost of turbine Beechcraft parts.

Was this before you spent $75.00 to join the Commander Owners Group.

I have some CPAC stock for sale.

Life is a barrel of fun.

 

[Pchaser]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Fred,

salvaged commander parts are of the same cost of turbine Beechcraft parts.

Was this before you spent $75.00 to join the Commander Owners Group.

I have some CPAC stock for sale.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Sounds like your sitting on a gold mine Ken.

 

[Pat]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Judi
Do you have the production numbers of Commanders built by calendar year? It would be interesting to see when they were built and the percentage of planes still flying.

 

[Pete]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

1976 one 114, S/N 14068, still flying

 

[N4843W]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Fred, I respectfully disgaree with your assessment. We absolutely can and should fault Ms. Moa for not embracing this group. Her failure to do that is simply a bad business decision.

Who knows the history of each and every "owner" -- the good, the bad and the ugly?
Who knows the ins and outs of the FAA hurdles?
Who knows the strengths & weaknesses of the fleet?
Who knows what would make the AC11 better and what would be a waste?
Who kept Commander alive with our own personal investments, which most of us knew was a high-risk venture?
Who could help immediately with the goal to restart the factory? To display the planes? To give prospects rides?

The answer is, of course, the COG members. Her business sense in this is so bad in this regard that I am beginning to wonder if her intent ever was to restart the factory. And let's call the letter to dealer what it is, an out-an-out falsehood. Everyone in aviation knows it would be flat-out impossible, even if you put $100 million into it, to bring out a new 114 in 2019, within 16 months of that letter.

Something is going on here. I have a couple of uninformed theories, but we'll just have to hang on for "the rest of the story." We have not heard it all yet.

 

[janderson]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

I'll do a recount by SN/year, but I believe my first stat count taken in May 1993 was 1309 built between '72 and '93. approx 125 '94 thru 2002s. guesstimate, probably 70% still worldwide, flying or sitting.

Judi

Judi
Do you have the production numbers of Commanders built by calendar year? It would be interesting to see when they were built and the percentage of planes still flying.

 

[Pat]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Thanks Judy for the production numbers.
I am not judging MS MOA.
I want to understand the market and the production of Commanders and general aviation.
We know the market died in the late 70s and some recovery in the 90s slowed down in the late 90s and again in 2009. It appears at this point, if Commander had 25% of the market of SE metal retracts, about the same as the Bonanzas, the vendors and plant would only need to supply 1 part every other month. Piper has other models to even out production.
Of the two people really interested enough to put big money into Commander, Robert Strauss, who tried to buy it in 2009, is probably happy the deal got screwed up.
Without a consolidation of Commander with another manufacture. Unlikely
They need to very creative to get vendors. That would probably be in China. This will make many Commander owners and the people in OK very unhappy.

 

[N4843W]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

I thought after 9/11 there would be a genuine resurgence in owner-flown aircraft for business. Did not happen. I find very few people like me who fly themselves for business regularly. That would be an interesting survey here.

 

[Pchaser]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Fred, I respectfully disgaree with your assessment. We absolutely can and should fault Ms. Moa for not embracing this group. Her failure to do that is simply a bad business decision.

Who knows the history of each and every "owner" -- the good, the bad and the ugly?
Who knows the ins and outs of the FAA hurdles?
Who knows the strengths & weaknesses of the fleet?
Who knows what would make the AC11 better and what would be a waste?
Who kept Commander alive with our own personal investments, which most of us knew was a high-risk venture?
Who could help immediately with the goal to restart the factory? To display the planes? To give prospects rides?

The answer is, of course, the COG members. Her business sense in this is so bad in this regard that I am beginning to wonder if her intent ever was to restart the factory. And let's call the letter to dealer what it is, an out-an-out falsehood. Everyone in aviation knows it would be flat-out impossible, even if you put $100 million into it, to bring out a new 114 in 2019, within 16 months of that letter.

Something is going on here. I have a couple of uninformed theories, but we'll just have to hang on for "the rest of the story." We have not heard it all yet.

More Whos than in WhoVille!
I don’t disagree with your comments Scott.
That is all well and good if Ms.Moa’s business plan was to support/build an aged airframe.
If you look at the new Commander website it states they will be releasing a new model. They also offer old stock parts for sale. Don’t you think if they were planning on building one of the existing airframe models the parts listed would be of use to them?
For those that have commented that eighteen months is to short of a period to become operational I would like to remind you that Ms. Moa’s purchase is now going on four years! The new commander group has reached out to one of the local universities and has been working with the R&D department which usually help grease the permitting process in a politians eyes and gives tax incentives.
Lastly, embracing the COG in a pure business model (which many Chinese have studied) goes against there teachings. For example; I’m sure you will correct me if I’m wrong, the other bidder that Ms.Moa out bid at poultry price of $600k+ for the Commander rights was our very own Jim Richards that is now a DER and selling small kits for the existing fleet.
Another interesting tell tale sign is that the new Commander group hasn’t reached out to Carl Lee for a simpler turbo version with good performance/cost ratios.
From a pure business standpoint it looks as if the new Commander group is being readied for a sale or absorption into another manufacturer or what the majority has been saying, the move overseas.

 

[FS]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

From a pure business standpoint it looks as if the new Commander group is being readied for a sale or absorption into another manufacturer or what the majority has been saying, the move overseas.

Won't happen. She would lose her EB-5 green card (and that's no joke).

 

[Pat]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

I found some shipment information for comparison. The last 3 years of shipments for Commanders and the last 3 years.
the Piper SE is the Single Piston Engine models. I could not go before 2000.

 

[janderson]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

'76 114 SN 14001 - 14134
'77 114 SN 14150 - 14319
'78 114 SN 14350 - 14442
'79 114A GT SN 14500 - 14540
'92 114B SN14541 - 14564
'93 114B SN14565 - 14599
'94 114B SN14600 - 14624
'95 114B SN14625 - 14640
'96 114B SN14641 - 14649
'97 114B SN14650 - 14655
'98 114B SN14656 - 14661
'99 114B SN14662 - 14669 (no showing for SN14667 til 2000)

will post '95 and newer TCs and 115s separately.

Judi

 

[janderson]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

'00 115 SN14667 then 14670 - 14680
'01 115 SN14681 - unspecified, but probably 3 total
'02 115 SN 14684

'95 114TC SN20001 - 20009
'96 114TC SN20010 - 20014
'97 114TC SN20015 - 20018
'98 114TC SN20019 - 20023
'99 114TC SN20024 - 20027

'00 115TC SN20028 - 20037
'01 115TC SN20038 - unspecified, but probably 4 total
'02 115TC SN20043 - 20044

Judi

 

[BUFDRVR]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

'76 114 SN 14001 - 14134
'77 114 SN 14150 - 14319
'78 114 SN 14350 - 14442
'79 114A GT SN 14500 - 14540
'92 114B SN14541 - 14564
'93 114B SN14565 - 14599
'94 114B SN14600 - 14624
'95 114B SN14625 - 14640
'96 114B SN14641 - 14649
'97 114B SN14650 - 14655
'98 114B SN14656 - 14661
'99 114B SN14662 - 14669 (no showing for SN14667 til 2000)

will post '95 and newer TCs and 115s separately.


Judi

Judy are you sure about the year and serial numbers? Mine is a '76 with a serial number of 14184...

Mike

 

[janderson]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

yes you are a '77 by Mfgr. S/N. a/w date 12-13-76, but all/any produced that late in the calendar yr. were delivered as the following yr. last '76 was 14134.
you can reconfirm by Price Digest and VRef same dates/SNs. so now that you're a '77 and not a '76, you're valued $5K higher.

Judi

 

[N4843W]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

Just posted on the other thread but yes, my 114 N4843W is serial number 14173 built in Nov, 1976, registered as a '77.

 

[BUFDRVR]

Re: History on Commander Ownership

yes you are a '77 by Mfgr. S/N. a/w date 12-13-76, but all/any produced that late in the calendar yr. were delivered as the following yr. last '76 was 14134.
you can reconfirm by Price Digest and VRef same dates/SNs. so now that you're a '77 and not a '76, you're valued $5K higher.

Judi

I'm glad I discovered this two years after Mike Weatherbee sold her to me!! "Production Flight Test," according the the log books, was a 3.6 hour local flight from PWA on 10 December, 1976!!

Mike