Friends don't let friends fly IFR

[NW-FLYER]

After training for IFR for a while I have come to the conclusion why? it stinks
I love VFR. If you have the funds to stay a night or two and do this for fun why in the hell would you want to do that crap its not fun anymore, See what VFR is all about here on my flight.

Frank from NY back me up!

http://youtu.be/-asNgvLc650

 

[proppilot]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Brian, is a special rating needed in the US to fly above a broken layer ? In Canada we need an OTT (over the top) rating which is a few more hours of IMC training to get the endorsement. Up and down through VMC and above a solid is A-OK as long as there is a hole at the other end !

Liked the flight and have done a few of those. In SW Ontario we get major gusts almost all the time in Spring and Fall so I smiled when I heard the WX at G28 ! Story of my life here !

 

[painlesspotter]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

------ In Canada we need an OTT (over the top) rating which is a few more hours of IMC training to get the endorsement. ------

Tony, what is required to maintain currency on the OTT? Seems like a good alternative to the full US IFR rating and proficiency/currency criteria in order to do a simple popup to on-top. The motivation to get an IFR rating for casual operations is so that you can get in and out of airports in coastal areas that all too often have low layers or fog and it is clear on-top. The rigor and cost of maintaining IFR currency is most times overwhelming and no longer worth it in my case.

 

[proppilot]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Hi John, the OTT is a rating and does not require a flight test (like the night rating) and does not have a currency requirement. Once you get it, you have it. With the night rating, you have currency requirements to carry passengers.

I did some quick snooping around the web and saw some indications (on wikipedia) that in the US you simply need to have an IFR equipped aircraft to flight above a broken however in countries like Canada and it referred to Germany, it is a rating.

 

[DKrueger]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Brian,

Tells us your camera set-up again please. Nice videos that you've posted.

 

[FS]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

If you have the funds to stay a night or two and do this for fun why in the hell would you want to do that crap its not fun anymore ... Frank from NY back me up!

I agree 100%. For the casual flyer, with an occasional long distance flight, there's very little value (my opinion) to acquiring and maintaining an IFR rating.

 

[FS]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

is a special rating needed in the US to fly above a broken layer?

There's no other endorsement or rating to fly above a cloud layer. However, if you don't have an IFR rating then you have to get above and below it in visual conditions.

 

[DKrueger]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Today in Charleston is the perfect example, 1000 foot solid layer only a 100 feet or so thick. Perfect VFR on top day.

 

[TKutchera]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Brian,

I guess it would really depend on what your "mission" typically is. I have my instrument rating but my airport has no instrument approach and sits at 400' with the nearest wx reporting station 5 miles away at sea level (TTD), so often times its 1000 or so there but that means its only 600' at my airport and its surrounded by significant trees and hills so there is no way id ever take off let alone get in to land safely. Plus around here we get so much ice from Nov to Mar, even if I could get off the ground Id be getting iced up before I could get to the MEA or on top.

I think you have the right attitude in that if its too crappy you get a hotel and stay put. When I was getting ready to buy a Commander, I did a complete NTSB accident report history search of all reported Commander accidents from 76 on just to read what causes them to go in. easily 90% was VFR into IMC conditions with no instrument rating. (I know its not just a Commander problem but it was comforting to see that these airplanes are great and do well unless pilot error or the fairly rare mechanical failure of something gets them).

Like Dan just pointed out though, there are many days around here in the spring and fall where we get the morning low clouds that are 1500 or so but a thousand feet thick but clear on top so its plenty safe to depart get a clearance then pop up on top and shoot an approach to where your going and cancel to go somewhere else below the clouds. Much less stressful for me than knowing if Ill find a hole to get through. It works well for getting home here if its at around 1500 at PDX (also at SL), I can start the ILS then cancel and go VFR to Camas very safely. Anything below about 1500, I think twice, but we all have our personal minimums

But I also use my instrument rating for my living so staying current isnt a problem for me, but the points made about staying current are very valid if you arent using it. I guess for me its kind of like staying SEL night current. I go get my 3 stop and goes when I can but I think I have less than an hour in mine at night, but I just want to be current so that if I end up needing it, I dont have to worry about getting current first.

Tim

 

[CenAir]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

IFR like this?

 

[jmcb]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

My primary reason for getting my IFR rating was to be able to bust through the "pesky" marine layer here on the West Coast. I agree with John regarding the difficulty in maintaining IFR currency. Where I live it is VFR 90% of the time and it often is not convenient to fly on a day with IMC. Getting someone qualified to fly with you to practice approaches can be a pain...sooo you don't go up!

 

[alandotson]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

The rating is nice if you want to use and maintain it... The training is 'life saving', if you need it inadvertently. We can all be prudent while flying VFR and try to stay out of the clouds; however there may be a day when you may not be able to. If you have enough instrument training to maintain control and navigate to better weather, then you can live to fight another day and endure the FAA scrutiny later!

 

[NW-FLYER]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

My video camera is a GoPro Hero-3 with a audio cable adapter that the head set plugs in to. I use a suction cup mount stuck to the aft top of the pilot window. It also has a water proof case you can film under water up to 100 meters or above 100 mph if its exposed. I don't use that for in cockpit filming its sealed so there is no head set audio if you use it. The all weather case is what you would use if you mounted it externally. I need to get another one for two views it has a remote and generates its own WIFI for many cameras if you want, You can turn them on and record and off with the remote.
I would like to try that under carriage mount like the COG member who showed us the San Francisco movie very cool to see the gear raise on take off and sweet view of the ground. The camera is tiny maybe 3"x 2" inches and very high resolution I use 48 fps but I think it will do like over 200 fps. Big files a 10 minute movie is maybe 2 gig in size so you edit and cut out what you don't want. The prices are coming down think its $300 now was $400 last summer when I bought it. Accessories like the head set cable $50 because its aviation related I am sure.

The IFR training I will resume soon. I only need it to get in and out of this valley in the winter we get a 500 ft thick layer in here often Dec through Feb. I am just kicking and crying like a 5 year old sissy because its so much work lol. Lots of money for fuel and I don't enjoy it like I do VFR then my mind keeps asking if it will be worth it.

Thanks for your input.

 

[ksandrew]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

I for one think that the IFR rating is worth it even if you don't plan to use it.

I got mine in about 1977 and for twenty years never made a trip that I did not file IFR. In fact I forgot how to fly VFR.
Then for some reason I stopped filing.

The knowledge and experience has got me out of so many jams that I think the training was well worth it.

I have no idea what it would cost today, I am not presently current. Last filed IFR over two years ago.

In many ways filing IFR is the lazy mans way of flying.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken

 

[NW-FLYER]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Your right Ken, Ill keep chipping away at it. I know in the long run it will be worth it. I will have to file often in the winter if I want out of this valley so
good chance I would be keeping current that way.

Thanks for you input God father Ken

 

[Frank]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

As has been said IFR is used so seldom the idea of using it a very few times is not worth it. I fly so I can sight see at the same time. On top is good for some trips but it is not the same. My rule is simple I never have to be anywhere at a certain time. But I do plan cross countries so as not to encounter delaying WX.
When I use my airplane for doing claims it is only on days that are good and some are in different states. If not VFR, I drive.

I too looked at each of the NTSB Commander accidents before I bought mine to get an idea of why the crashes and were a lot due to IFR stuff.
If I had to be on a schedule when using my airplane I would definitely get my IFR.

With regard to low clouds that are about 100 to 300 feet thick we too have our days here just like other folks and it would be nice to pop through the layer since many times the clouds are very local and after departure it would all be clear skies to the ground.

 

[kgrant]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Nothing is more fulfilling than a leisurely afternoon sightseeing flight. Departing with no destination is true freedom.

But unfortunately, the trips that pay for the airplane require a destination and a time schedule (in my case, a day or so). Age and experience have tempered my IFR flying somewhat, but most of my destinations are filed. Ken's right - it's the lazy man's way to get there (unless you are in northern Arkansas) - but a great number of my trips have some IMC in the log.

Would i start over at 55 and do it - maybe not. But at 21, my most challenging lessons in discipline and focus were in airplanes with an instructor at night in the winter doing my IFR cert. (my instructor didn't believe in IFR training in daytime). I'm a better pilot today because of his passion for keeping me alive.
k

 

[ksandrew]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Brian.

After thinking about this subject for a while I remembered why I always used to fly IFR.

On a severe clear day with beautiful sunshine, you file IFR to your destination under a class Bravo airport.

You do not worry about TFRs as that is ATCs problem, restricted airspace, MOAs, the next frequency they do it all for you, unlike flight following they are not allowed to dump you.

Arriving at class Bravo you don't need permission to enter.

They are like a big baby sitter in the clouds.

I have heard horror stories about flying IFR in the Northeast. When I fly over New York it is at 35,000' on Delta.

And you can always cancel at any time (except in Bravo) without reason or explanation.

Yup, the lazy mans way of flying.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken

 

[N4843W]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

When I left for Chicago for Thanksgiving Thursday early, it was IFR in Detroit. By the time I got to Indiana, 12,000 and 10. When I left to return yesterday, it was IFR in Chicago. When I got to Michigan, 12,000 and 10, until I got to Jackson, where a ceiling developed.Flew the ILS then took advantage of it and flew two more GPS approaches. Got my 3 approaches and 3 night landings in within 35 minutes. Nice when it works out that way. The key point is that without the IFR ticket, I was driving, not flying, this holiday. I'll chose interacting with the usually-friendly controllers "telling me what to do" over the huge crowds of often-idiotic drivers any day.

Some of my all-time favorite flying has been VFR. Perhaps the most memorable was the Great Lakes Tour and flying up the Lake Huron coast with Sven and Greg W., playing simulated air-battle. I would dive down on them flying low along the beach, then Greg would pop on his smoke and fly erratically off toward the lake. I know a fair number of folks thought OMG! He shot him down!

But all of you have done it know there is a whole other realm of enormous satisfaction, when you fly hard IFR into a busy airspace like Chicago, keep up 100% with every instruction as you negotiate a complicated approach entry, then fly with jets in front of you, behind you, and parallel ... nail the landing after the controller drops you in from a ridiculous altitude, breaking out at minimums, make the first turnoff and the tower calls, "43W contact Ground point-seven and Great Job, thanks."

But the last post nailed it,
"easily 90% was VFR into IMC conditions with no instrument rating." What if there had not been a hole? Are you a high-stakes gambler? My oldest is about to take his flight test. I told him he had to get the IFR within a year if he wanted to fly the Commander solo. I did that to protect him. I think every pilot should go through the rigors and discipline of getting that ticket. Even if you never fly IFR -- but you will in order to get out on an otherwise great day -- it makes you a better pilot.

 

[DKrueger]

Re: Friends don't let friends fly IFR

Scott,

I couldn't agree more, with all the stories of inadvertent VFR into IMC why wouldn't you. I think adding to your skill set is always a great idea. Yes, it's lots of time, money and work, but for the time you may need it, it's worth it all. I have just begun mine and don't plan on flying hard IMC, I fly for pleasure and not work. I just think the challenge and resulting skill set will make me a better pilot.