Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

[nruzic]

Hi I also posted in the New Commander Owner thread but just in case.

I am flying in today from VLL in the Detroit area and it will be a fab tail wind.

Can anyone in NE area help with 4 questions:
1 Suggest what routing will be given by NY Center for coming into FRG from the west.
2 Should I come in IFR or should I come in VFR Flight Following.
3 Should I pass up FRG and try the airports to the N or W of the city White Plains or TEB in order to get a more direct route?
4 Will this airport still allow Brooklyn EAST River area (Water St) reachable in 1 hr or less FROM AIRPORT.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Lonnie Steverson]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Sid would prob be easier to just drive.

 

[FS]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

1 Suggest what routing will be given by NY Center for coming into FRG from the west.

I wouldn't know about an IFR route, for certain, but I have heard of routings that go north to Albany before coming back down to the Long Island area.

2 Should I come in IFR or should I come in VFR Flight Following.

I'm either very fortunate, or NY is a lot nicer than folks think. I get VFR advisories through the NY Class B about 96% of the time I've requested it. Coming back from Dayton I flew in from the west (over Allentown), was given VFR clearance into the airspace at 5,500, then direct LGA, direct my destination (KISP). My flight path was very close to LGA, so I should have expected it. Your experience may or may not be the same.

Thinking back, I would have to say that the times I have been cleared into Class B I was either heading directly overhead LGA or overhead JFK. Sometimes I would file a flight plan to that effect, other times they would ask me for a heading and I would add to my response, "direct JFK from here", and other times they would specifically route me overhead one of the major airports. I did all my PPL training at FRG, and on a solo flight I once came in from over NJ, south of Newark, and was routed over Sandy Hook, direct JFK, direct FRG, at 3500 feet. The FRG controller was a bit surprised to see me come in from that direction. Most of their arrivals are from the North, East, or South.

If you're on a tight schedule and the risk of not getting cleared into the Class B will screw things up, then just plan to go around it and eliminate that stress. A simple VFR route to avoid the airspace is from Wilkes-Barre to Carmel VOR (CMK) to Deer Park VOR (DPK).

3 Should I pass up FRG and try the airports to the N or W of the city White Plains or TEB in order to get a more direct route?

4 Will this airport still allow Brooklyn EAST River area (Water St) reachable in 1 hr or less FROM AIRPORT.

Avoid TEB. If you go to HPN then you'll never meet your "1 hour or less" requirement. FRG is your only choice if you hope to have any chance of making it in 1 hour. I would plan more time, just because highway traffic is unpredictable. If you're early, there are plenty of places to visit while you wait.

 

[dgeib]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

I have been to FRG twice but came up from the south. Easy both times. There is a train station just north of the airport and the FBO is willing to take you there and pick you up.

Coming from the west I would file IFR to Kingston IGN just north of White Plains there is an arrival from there.

 

[nruzic]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Frank thanks for your good advice, I will try the VFR Flight Following via Allentown & req Class B over LGA to FRG.

Douglas I should have mentioned will be taking Long Island RR via Jamica to Atlantic Station & this will really be good on return at 7PM rather than face road traffic.

Its a great tailwind day & will stay low to avoid more than 20k headwind.

Thanks both for advice. Lonnie my motto if its more than 120 miles fly don't drive.

 

[Jamesdub]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Morning Sid,
You got us thinking at the office this morning, Using AOPA flight planner we came up with:
For airway routing: COFGI V418 JHW V270 ULW V147 LACIE T218 SAX V188 NYACK
Alt: 11,000, Fuel: 34 Gal req’d + res.
Would definitely file IFR, routing clears a midway MOA but we weren’t really sure about crossing Lake Erie (survival factor) and if any Canadian airspace procedures may apply.
FltPlan.com is a bit simpler using GPS routing: Route: OCTAS ERI SAX (but does take you through the Duke MOA)
We planned on RNAV 19 approach.
Fuel is a bit steep for us @ $7.85.
Good Luck, John

 

[proppilot]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

No special procedures going over Canada. Just don't land without pre-formalities and be on a filed flight plan. Same goes for us flying over the US heading to Atlantic Canada.

Erie is no problem ( did it on the way back from Dayton at 12,000 which was plenty high to glide to many places ) and the engine will go 'auto rough' for you as soon as you are feet wet....

 

[plight]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Tony is right, no special procedures when entering CNDN airspace. However, rather than using pilot Jargon such as "Roger", you should end your transmission with "EH".

Grin …

 

[FS]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

No special procedures going over Canada. Just don't land without pre-formalities and be on a filed flight plan.

Brings up a question.

On the way to the Boyne fly-in, I went from the Buffalo area across Canada and into Michigan. Did all the flight plan stuff and spoke with ATC the whole way, so no issues there.

But I always wondered, what if I had to make an emergency landing in Canada? I had a U.S. drivers license and other forms of identification, but I didn't bring my passport since I had no plans of landing in Canada. Would I be stuck living in some FBO no-man's land if I had to put the airplane down due to some unplanned mechanical event?

Then, naturally, on the way back home from Boyne, crossing Canada again, my alternator failed. I was already on the U.S. side of the border, but, hmmm, interesting potential dilemma.

 

[Planecents]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

For as long as it took for the overnight package to arrive, you would be their "guest"

Brings up a question.
But I always wondered, what if I had to make an emergency landing in Canada? I had a U.S. drivers license and other forms of identification, but I didn't bring my passport since I had no plans of landing in Canada. Would I be stuck living in some FBO no-man's land if I had to put the airplane down due to some unplanned mechanical event?

 

[TKutchera]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Frank,

Anytime over Canada, have a 6 pack in the back. Goes a long way for negotiations and document inspections

 

[milojevicp]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Like Tim says, a six pack is good, eh!

Seriously though, in the event you do need to land in Canada unexpectedly, call Canadian Customs at 888 226-7277, or the nearest RCMP Office and explain your situation. Then you might sip back the six pack after they greet you and clear you.

All the best,

Pete

 

[Sherman]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

I thought the Canadian tradition was 'Swee-Touch-Nee' Tea! Didn't find 'English Breakfast Tea' in Ottawa area in 2011. Did get treated to my first Tim Hortons.

 

[milojevicp]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Good point Sherman. Nonetheless, hockey or beer are the staples, and the maple leaf and the beaver are the national symbols. Any of these topics can improve discussions with the customs officer in an unplanned landing.

Best regards,

Pete

 

[plight]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

I think that the Canadians would be the least of your problems. You would need an eAPIS filing for departing the US and landing at Canada. Hard to get a six pack through the USB port of your computer. Just food for thought.

 

[nruzic]

Re: Detroit to NYC - Brooklyn which airport is best

Trip report thanks all for the advices.

1 Left Troy VLL 10am flew Canada along the N Shore of Lake Erie on a gorgeous day.Then near Buffalo then crossed over. @ 9500 we had a 50+ k tail wind and had 180 k in a fixed gear Cardinal! NY Center was great gave us VFR Flight following in through LGA Class B then N Shore LI and into FRG to land R21.

2 Made it into Brooklyn 1hr 2o after landing thanks to Sheltair's prompt ride to LI Railroad station Farmingdale station. Train needed an easy transfer at Jamaica to Brooklyn Atlantic Terminal train. Then walked on bustling Brooklyn streets to Water St.
Attended a Design for Manufacturing conference.
Sandy Munor (colleague) presented at 6pm and then had Q&A till 8pm.
We walked took LI Rail to Farmingdale again 1 hr transit in comfy trains.
Was taxing out of Sheltair by 945pm.

3 NY Center gave us an almost reciprocal route with Flight following on a clear night see pic.
We now had to pay the tax on the morning windfall - 115k GS even though I went low after crossing the PA hills, we crossed W PA & OH at 2500.
Cornered Lake Erie via Sandusky and landed VLL at 2AM.

All in all efficient travel. Aren't we lucky to be able to take to the sky on demand while our less fortunate friends must endure sudden seat recline rage.

Here're the pics

PS yes she wanted to indulge in the deed on the return since it was a beautiful night but I had to decline, pilot rules obligation, since we were only at 2500 feet!