Commander simulator and Asbestos

[TheCommanderSim]

Greetings,

I am about to purchase a 112A which was written-off by insurers. with the intention to convert it into a simulator.

I have noted in the POH that the engine baffles "incorporate rubber-asbestos composition seals at points of contact with the engine cowling". Does anyone have knowledge or experience of these seals and the hazards they pose? The engine and these baffles have already been removed but am extremely concerned about residual presence of asbestos.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Kindly
Richard

 

[proppilot]

Hi Richard, these baffles are the 'walls' that bridge the spaces between the physical engine and the upper cowl to create an enclosure that routes air down over the cylinders that comes in the front. If you have no engine, you are guaranteed to have no seals. Part of the assembly is aluminum and then the flexible panels you see at the top look like they originally had asbestos in them.

 

[TheCommanderSim]

Thank you for your fast and reassuring response, Tony.

Do these seals risk releasing asbestos if they are moved/bent/flexed during normal maintenance or baffle+engine removal?

My concern is is that residual asbestos particles/fibers may have become free during engine removal and found there way onto the firewall or some other part which I will later be interacting with.

Have you experience with handling these seals?

Thank you

 

[proppilot]

Hi Richard, ours is a 112A like the airframe you are looking at and I am 100% positive that the seals on any engine/airframe of that era were replaced decades ago. Ours is at least on the third set since birth and are synthetic as are I am sure very set in the fleet by now. I will welcome any other comments but think you have absolutely nothing to be concerned about. Airborne asbestos is/was the concern and any dust that was in the air on those earlier seals would have most likely been extracted from the cowl during flight due to the high air pressure/movement in there. Even if minutes amount of dust were generated back in the day, it would not be able to penetrate anything. First time I have ever heard or read anything related to this topic so I suspect in the owner/fleet it is a decades old topic long gone.

 

[TheCommanderSim]

Thank you, Tony.

I certainly appreciate the response. I'll follow-up to check that the seals were in fact replaced with asbestos-free. This makes good sense so thanks for noting that.

If I go ahead with the purchase then do keep an eye out for G-LITE as I attempt to give it a new life as a simulator.

Best
Richard

 

[ksandrew]

Richard, keep us posted on your project, I have some info that you might be interested in, my Commander shows up on flight sim, lot of fun.

 

[alim]

Thank you, Tony.

I certainly appreciate the response. I'll follow-up to check that the seals were in fact replaced with asbestos-free. This makes good sense so thanks for noting that.

If I go ahead with the purchase then do keep an eye out for G-LITE as I attempt to give it a new life as a simulator.

Best
Richard

i've looked at cut-off cockpits over the years but never had a garage big enough.

Good luck with this ..

 

[Kanderson]

Hi Richard, Even if the original baffles are still there it is a very very small risk - as the owner if it is still there and you want to get rid of it; do there following.

Wet it down with soapy water
Drill out the rivets
Put it in a plastic bag
Toss it in the trash

for extra safety wear an N95 or P100 mask while doing it and shower and wash the laundry after

This will be much more elaborate if you hire someone to do it.

Asbestos until the early 80s was everywhere and in everything - floor tiles, ceiling tiles, wall texture, fire proofing, and break pads to name a few - the people that were really affected were either making stuff with it, or applying it as a fireproofing - auto brake shops where the brake dust wad cleared off with compressed air were not a good idea either.

Maybe I am more risk tolerant - growing up in a time where every Jr High, High School and College chemistry lab had asbestos pads on the benches free mercury in the sinks ant 400,000,000 lbs/year of lead were in the US air due to landed auto gas. Didn't aff@##$$....e&^^$&*^&*.... hurt me at all.

If it makes you feel more comfortable ( it shouldn't ) I am a licensed Professional Safety Engineer.

Cheers and remember life is risky - and none of us will get out alive.

 

[TheCommanderSim]

Thanks to all on this thread for your comments and helpful information/advice. The fuselage was delivered without engine frame or baffles so I'm quite happy.

Thanks!
Richard

 

[TheCommanderSim]

Is anyone aware of the use of asbestos in any other parts of the aircraft, such as cabin insulation, mixed with fibreglass insulation?

Thanks

 

[gmores]

Is anyone aware of the use of asbestos in any other parts of the aircraft, such as cabin insulation, mixed with fibreglass insulation?

Thanks

I've never heard of any references to asbestos in any of the Commander construction other than the possibility of the previously mentioned engine baffles - and even then I've never seen any testing to confirm that. I believe asbestos was banned from manufacturing in the U.S. in 1977? Almost everything I've seen in the Commander over the years has been simple fiberglass.

Aside from testing as Frank previously mentioned, you may be able to get more info with a call to the factory which is in very limited operation.