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Commander On Grass...

Y

yankeepapa

New member
Hazel Green, AL
Saw a similar post, but wanted to focus on personal mission-profile details to determine whether I should consider purchasing a Commander:

- home base 2670' paved with grass taxiway
- most destinations will be airports with paved runways
- one common exception will be 3M5 (Moontown) for EAA breakfasts
- grass strip in North Alabama, 2180' x 160' (655' elevation)
- not "high", but "hot" & "humid" in Summer
- low-ish mountains on the West, rural power lines on the East

Perhaps someone in this group has flown in/out of Moontown in a Commander? A PIREP would be great! Guessing this will require a 114 variant with 3-blade prop if at gross?

David
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Howdy Dave,

Doable on both M38 and 3M5 but I don't know if I would have been comfortable 'learning' the AC11 techniques on short fields just after acquisition.

We had a great gathering of AC11's on grass at Ken Andrew's field (near Albany) but it was 4,600' and no one had a problem there.

Our field in Enterprise underwent construction a few years ago and they used 1/2 the runway at a time. 2,500' paved and we had no problems with it though you were on the brakes vice a long roll out . . .

Can't wait to have you join the Bama gang. Todd Hardin is just over the hill in Gadsden. and we trying to find Greg Stanford a replacement for his 114 that the tornado got in Vernon last fall. Mike McGrath is just across the Tn border in Savannah.

Good luck,
John
 
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Re: Commander On Grass...

Jamesdub said:
Todd Hardin in just over the hill in Gadsden.
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Wow, John...That's pretty rough, describing Todd as "over the hill"... I'd have pegged him as "on top of the hill" at best... (Just razzing a fellow former Army Aviator / depraved helicopter pilot.)
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Personally, I cannot see my 112 HS flying out of a 2180ft grass runway or a 2670ft paved for that matter-especially in the middle of summer.

Perhaps others have a better technique than I and maybe you could flying REALLY light.
 
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Agree with you on the grass strip, but I have flown out of many strips that were less than 3,000 ft with full tanks in the summer months. Generally earlier in the day and lower altitude strips.
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Only experience I've had on grass with my 114 was a 3100' strip at 2500' msl and we were probably 100-125 pounds under gross and had no problem. Was a early September trip. We left about 10am before it got too warm so density altitude was around 4000 if memory serves.

Tim
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Commander91gm said:
Agree with you on the grass strip, but I have flown out of many strips that were less than 3,000 ft with full tanks in the summer months. Generally earlier in the day and lower altitude strips.
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Good to know on the <3k strip. I am assuming you configured for a Short Field in that case i.e. 20 deg flaps and hold prior to TO?
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Never use 20-10 max for me, other than that standard TO procedure. Generally off the runway at around the 1500 foot mark.
Remember - This is early in the morning with lower DA at lower alt airports.
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Here is a video of my takeoff in Oregon. Of course I was near sea level and 375lbs of people cargo and 45 gal of fuel. Takeoff in less then a 1000ft.https://vimeo.com/172614583 .
Now I was at Kens grass strip and left when very hot. During takeoff winds shifted from headwind to tail wind. Had about 425lbs on board and 50 gal of fuel. It a while to get off the ground. 2000ft I guess. Things would have been a lot better taking off the other direction. The wind sock was a little deceiving.

I have been to Moontown in my 180C years ago. They keep that place looking nice and I may go for the breakfast in my 112A alone first with fuel below tabs first to see what it feels like and say hello to Todd. :)

https://vimeo.com/172614583
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Good to remember that grass can be very different. If it is short and dry, you don't lose much to pavement. If it is long and wet, you use a LOT and your run will be considerably longer.
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

N4843W said:
Good to remember that grass can be very different. If it is short and dry, you don't lose much to pavement. If it is long and wet, you use a LOT and your run will be considerably longer.
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My POH states to add 20% for grass strips vs. pavement
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

jukelemon said:
My POH states to add 20% for grass strips vs. pavement
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I've sincerely landed and taken off on some grass that seemed to actually be better than pavement, so each field would be different, some you could add 20% others maybe nothing and some maybe 10% etc and others maybe never get off the ground etc.

Each field is going to be somewhat different, however Jason you'll find that overall the Commanders do extremely well off grass and you'll have a blast flying in and out of grass strips, the Commanders are very capable grass field airplanes.
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

N295TC said:
I've sincerely landed and taken off on some grass that seemed to actually be better than pavement, so each field would be different, some you could add 20% others maybe nothing and some maybe 10% etc and others maybe never get off the ground etc.

Each field is going to be somewhat different, however Jason you'll find that overall the Commanders do extremely well off grass and you'll have a blast flying in and out of grass strips, the Commanders are very capable grass field airplanes.
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Roger that.

I just did Lee Bottom a few days ago. It is 4k I believe. No issues at all and certainly didnt need 4k.

So, I can see how the planes do well on grass.
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

I echo Todd's comments - each field is very specific as are the conditions. I've not operated off of many grass strips, but, I recall some significant differences. When was it last mowed, how dry is it (dew, rain etc). I had 42W at Ken's place - and it was really great. Plenty wide, plenty smooth and plenty long - so no challenges what so ever - but - it was very dry there at the time too.

Dean
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

I'm based at Stapleford in the UK our 10/28 is 498 meters (1634 feet) in the summer it's as good as Tarmac, not a problem, in the winter we have to watch the weight. Our gear can cope with bumps easily, 11ft wide trailing link takes care of everything. It is a nuisance hosing off the mud splashes though.
Fred
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

flyfred3 said:
I'm based at Stapleford in the UK our 10/28 is 498 meters (1634 feet) in the summer it's as good as Tarmac, not a problem, in the winter we have to watch the weight. Our gear can cope with bumps easily, 11ft wide trailing link takes care of everything. It is a nuisance hosing off the mud splashes though.
Fred
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1634 ft?????

Damn :eek:
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

It's important to put all the variables in the equation, I have long range tanks so kept below tabs in winter, 15-20 knot headwind only 2 up, 25 knots plus I can put a lady in a back seat, no unnecessary luggage, set the flaps to short field, full power, let the brakes go, pull back on roll to unstick the nose-wheel, aim into wind, we have a farmers field at each end which is comforting but never seen them brought into play. There are lots of satellite grass strips left over from WW2, Stapleford was a standby for North Weald, so we get used to them.
Fred
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

Like Fred I've operated off a fair number of short grass strips in Europe. It's worth considering what's in the way after take-off as well...trees and buildings spring to mind and the length of take-off roll varies a lot from to day to day.
I've also found the undulations in grass fields can be a factor. There's a grass field called Easterton/Elgin I've used in Scotland. It has a steep hill approx. a third of the way down the take-off roll. I confess to chickening out and reducing power to avoid a prop strike approaching the base of that hill and changing course just after rotation to avoid trees.
Farmers' fields seem to be the most variable. The low points are wet and the grass bogs you down.
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

If you want to see a heavenly grass strip, Google the Triple Tree Aerodrome in NC, 7,000 feet of manicured grass.
 
Re: Commander On Grass...

rringgold said:
If you want to see a heavenly grass strip, Google the Triple Tree Aerodrome in NC, 7,000 feet of manicured grass.
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That's definitely on our 'flying' bucket list. this summer/ fall??
 
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