• Welcome to the new Commander Owners Group Forums. Please bear with us as the kinks are worked out and things are tweaked. If you have any questions or issues with the new platform, please post them here.

An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Spinhalyard

New member
Addison, TX
Aircraft Year
1976
Aircraft Type
114 Hot Shot
Reg Number
N56CV
Serial Number
14017
The 2017 COG Fly-In was the first event of it’s kind I’ve ever attended. I met several great people, learned a lot about Commanders, a few things about my own plane, and even a little about myself.

Cards on the table, I’m probably one of the lowest-time Commander owners in the group, with only 240 hours in my log book, and off that, only 106 are in my 114 (after the first year). Suffice to say, the trip from Dallas to Ft. Collins was to be the longest solo, cross-country I’ve taken. Of course, for such a trip, I wanted to verify the turbo was working well, so another personal record was shattered as I flew at 16,500 there, and 17,500 back. Getting my little Beechcraft Sundowner to 7,000 seemed to take forever, so I was ready to test my latest conveyance. This led to another first, needing oxygen and wearing a nose-hose. Also, up until this point, all of my flying has been at damn-near sea level, making a trip to Colorado the highest elevation patterns and landings I would execute, yet another first. Finally, for no other reason than I wanted to do it without my instructor, I practiced instrument approaches when I landed for fuel. So, all-in-all, more personal firsts and broken records in a single trip than I could have imagined.

The event itself was enjoyable, enlightening, and worth the time, effort, and money to attend. I feel as if fast friends were made, that I look forward to seeing again at the next fly-in. Jim Richards was especially helpful resolving a brake issue, in short order, that would have grounded me until at least Monday. That brake snafu would not be the only equipment issue I would have on the way home. It is important to mention that Jim was already seated in his plane and about to start up and head home when I walked up and asked for help. Without any hesitation, he was out of the plane and providing assistance. Thanks Jim!

One thing of particular interest learned on this trip was that above 15,000, the boost pump should remain on. I, unofficially, learned this while troubleshooting a rough running engine after leveling off at 16,500. It was only after speaking with Todd did I learn, officially, that it must be turned on at higher altitudes. So, what does this have to do with the story? Well, as a result, the boost pump had likely not been run for such a long duty cycle (several hours at a time) in quite a while, if ever. As I got closer to Dallas, and not wanting to pay $7.00ish a gallon at my home airport, $3.85 at Gainesville (45 miles from home as the crow flies) was looking pretty good. After filling up, I turned on the boost pump and before I could turn it off, the switch tripped, and continued to trip. There I sat, minutes from home (in an airplane, anyway), that would not start while thinking to myself, “You have got to be kidding me!”

Fortunately, my wife was there within an hour and a half to pick me up. Unfortunately, the pump had indeed failed and I had to order another one. The somewhat good news is that my shop sold me a new one (not rebuilt) at cost. The shop on the field was going to charge me even more for a rebuilt one. Three days later, an AP buddy of mine and I drove back to Gainesville and installed the new pump. Thursday, eight days after the journey began, I finally completed the flight home from the COG Fly-In.

Oh, and what did I learn about myself on this trip? At 16,500 feet, when the engine is running rough, I’m not as cavalier about being shuffled off this mortal coil as I thought. By George, I want to live to fly another day, and definitely to another COG fly-in.
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Sounds like you had a great trip Bert. Using these wonderful airplanes like they were meant to be used and pushing yourself a bit is what makes great memories.

Hopefully you'll get that fuel pump issue straightened out quickly.
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

If it makes you feel any better, Bert, assuming the engine died and you had to glide it down, you would find it impossible to stop the engine from starting back up again.

I've mistakenly turned the fuel off at low altitudes while shooting approaches at night (over Dallas)! It's not really a big deal, turn it back on and you're back in business within about 2 or 3 seconds.
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Cool recount.

Curious....the boost pump must be a 114 thing? is the Fuel Pump or something different?

I never used the Fuel Pump on my 112 at 17.5k and the engine ran fine.

Just wondering..
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Cool recount.

Curious....the boost pump must be a 114 thing? is the Fuel Pump or something different?

I never used the Fuel Pump on my 112 at 17.5k and the engine ran fine.

Just wondering..

I thought that was unusual too but we'll wait to hear what Carl has to say about it.
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Cool recount.

Curious....the boost pump must be a 114 thing? is the Fuel Pump or something different?

I never used the Fuel Pump on my 112 at 17.5k and the engine ran fine.

Just wondering..

Interesting! I too am wondering, now. After returning, I did check with a couple of my AP/IA buddies along with my gazillion-hour ATP friends (who flew twins with turbo'd IO540s). To a person, they indicated that it was SOP for an IO540.

Thanks for the feedback. I would like to understand this in the event I need to have the mechanical pump investigated.
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

I assumed after I read Berts reply to my response to him about the boost pump it would inevitably ensue an open discussion with a multitude of questions; which is Great, that's How we all learn, correct?

You know what they say "most people" get through life by reasoning with Analogy-which by definition means copying what others have done with slight variations and in most cases people have to do that to get through the day but when one wants to do something new you have to apply the Physics Approach. Physics is really figuring out how to discover new things that are counterintuitive, sort of like Quantum Mechanics, it's really counterintuitive. I figured out the operations of the boost pump at high altitudes long before I found it in the POH.:):D

Now on to the "Boost Pump" at "High Altitudes". At "High Altitudes" the potential for formation of fuel vapor in the fuel system is there. The Vapor formation will be indicated by increased fluctuations in the fuel "flow" indications (metered Pressure downstream of the fuel injector servo) or fuel "Pressure" (Unmetered pressure upstream of the fuel injector servo). If fluctuations is greater than normal (which once again is most likely to happen at altitudes above say 15K to 17K ft), they may be stabilized by turning on the auxiliary boost pump.

Basically for me (because I've done and continue to do alot of high altitude flying in my 114TC I have found anytime I'm above these levels (15K to 17K) I have found it necessary to run the boost pump continuously throughout the flight, of course until I start my decent, which if I'm starting my decent for landing I just leave it on until I've landed.

For us late model 114TC drivers the POH states this in Section 3 on page 29 under "Excessive Fuel Vapor".

If I recall the conversation correctly; Neal Clayton and I once discussed this and he indicated to me after he installed a new Lear Mechanical Pump (replaced his factory mech pump) he no longer had this problem, but I also remember Neal sharing with me that he never flew N595TC above 17,500ft and that was only a couple times, I think Neal did most of his flying around 15K or less. Could it have been that the few times Neal flew up to 17,500 the ambient air, the pressures for that day and all the other variables were just right that he didn't experience any Fuel vapors at that current altitude. I myself have been to FL190 before and never had any fuel pressure fluctuations but then on other days I had fuel pressure fluctuations at 15,000 ft. There's a lot variables to what altitude the Fuel Vaporization will begin.
 
Last edited:
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Yeah...I dont see it anywhere in the 112B POH and I figure it would be in the same Sec 3 ER Procedures?

It speaks to adding the fuel pump when engine performance is decreasing i.e. Power Plant Failures and then OFF if no change. So maybe the vapor issue is assumed there?
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

For some reason, I remembered the part about leaving it on in climb. But the words "...when fuel flow will remain steady with it off." did not translate into leaving it on, unless it will run properly without it. I totally spaced on that tidbit.

"ALTITUDE OPERATION
Because a turbonormalized airplane will have a higher rate of climb than a normally aspirated airplane, fuel vaporization may be encountered. This vapor formation will be indicated by increased fluctuations in the fuel flow (metered pressure downstream of the fuel injector servo) or fuel pressure (unmetered pressure upstream of the fuel injector servo) indications. If fluctuations are greater than normal, or if a full rich mixture setting does not provide the desired fuel flow, placing the auxiliary fuel pump switch in the ON position will control vapor. The auxiliary fuel pump should be left on throughout the climb. It can be turned off for cruise when fuel flow will remain steady with it off. Whenever switching fuel tanks, monitor the metered fuel pressure (fuel flow gage) and use the auxiliary fuel pump if any drop in pressure is observed."
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

For some reason, I remembered the part about leaving it on in climb. But the words "...when fuel flow will remain steady with it off." did not translate into leaving it on, unless it will run properly without it. I totally spaced on that tidbit.

"ALTITUDE OPERATION
Because a turbonormalized airplane will have a higher rate of climb than a normally aspirated airplane, fuel vaporization may be encountered. This vapor formation will be indicated by increased fluctuations in the fuel flow (metered pressure downstream of the fuel injector servo) or fuel pressure (unmetered pressure upstream of the fuel injector servo) indications. If fluctuations are greater than normal, or if a full rich mixture setting does not provide the desired fuel flow, placing the auxiliary fuel pump switch in the ON position will control vapor. The auxiliary fuel pump should be left on throughout the climb. It can be turned off for cruise when fuel flow will remain steady with it off. Whenever switching fuel tanks, monitor the metered fuel pressure (fuel flow gage) and use the auxiliary fuel pump if any drop in pressure is observed."
Hi Bert. Where are you pulling that from?

I see nothing like that in my 112 Hot Shot POH supplement. Maybe I am missing it however?
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

112HS, no worries
114HS, no worries
114 Camarillo Aircraft Turbo Normalized, turn it on
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Hi Bert. Where are you pulling that from?

I see nothing like that in my 112 Hot Shot POH supplement. Maybe I am missing it however?

I have a different turbo than the HotShot. Pre-dates it, actually.
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

Here's the page Todd was talking about from the 114TC manual...

Yes, he's correct, I rarely flew N595TC above 12,000 (only twice, to be exact).

However there are plenty of threads from 114TC owners about vapor locking on the ground. It's turbo heat related, in my opinion, and turning the boost pump on fixes it. And yes, it's also related to a leaky material used by Romec on the original factory pumps. There's an AD on that, and getting a /M model pump with a new diaphragm material solves that (and possibly the same problem with inconsistent flow).
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 6.27.11 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 6.27.11 PM.jpg
    23.6 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

N56CV formerly N54496 has the orig. Turbo Flite 540 turbo-normalizing system (STC SE 0035DE). It was the 1st Commander w/this STC.

Judi


I have a different turbo than the HotShot. Pre-dates it, actually.
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

N56CV formerly N54496 has the orig. Turbo Flite 540 turbo-normalizing system (STC SE 0035DE). It was the 1st Commander w/this STC.

Judi

And that is coooooooool. :D
 
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

fm the file:
Originally delivered to a dealer in Canada. Returned to the USA a few years later. Was bought in mid 80’s by the Turbo Flight people who used it as a test airplane for the turbo-normalizing STC. It was registered in the experimental category for over a year while they worked out the kinks. Once they got the STC they brought it back out of experimental but kept it as a demonstrator. It had several turbo’s on it over the years until they got it worked out. Then it changed hands a couple of times as a personal aircraft. Tornado Alley?/ turbo flite 540.

I personally reviewed it and the logs when it lived in Galveston 2006.

Judi
 

Attachments

  • N54496 ext.jpg
    N54496 ext.jpg
    896.6 KB · Views: 0
Re: An odyssey of firsts; the 2017 COG Fly-In

fm the file:
Originally delivered to a dealer in Canada. Returned to the USA a few years later. Was bought in mid 80’s by the Turbo Flight people who used it as a test airplane for the turbo-normalizing STC. It was registered in the experimental category for over a year while they worked out the kinks. Once they got the STC they brought it back out of experimental but kept it as a demonstrator. It had several turbo’s on it over the years until they got it worked out. Then it changed hands a couple of times as a personal aircraft. Tornado Alley?/ turbo flite 540.

I personally reviewed it and the logs when it lived in Galveston 2006.

Judi

Thanks for the info! Any providence I can collect is a bonus. Some of the records I have, seem to tell a slightly different story. Intriguing! I will have to go through the logs again to make sure I'm understanding everything accurately, unlike the supplement I failed to comprehend. ;)
 
Back
Top